M3

[nizmo]

M3--->
3.2 L, 320+ HP, 0-60 of 4.8s.

I personally think it is the best car, for the money hands down. No car can compete with it, price, performance, styling, handling, quality, so on...

[enzo@af]

Lexus is working on a 2-door high performance IS. That could definitely challenge the E46 M3, but this is the best M3 ever, so it'll take a lot from Lexus.

I disagree though. I think, for the money, the M5 is better. I like the Sedan look, and you have to respect the killer performance.

Also, many of AMG's creations, although they'll hurt your piggy bank a little more, are definitely superior.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

[Racer 20]

Actually the Corvette ZO6 has more bang for your buck. It is one of the most amazing cars ever build IMHO. And I think the new BMW M3's have 333bhp.

[enzo@af]

Yeah, the Z06 is incredible. The best performing 'Vette ever, and for relatively cheap. 385 hp in the lightened body equals speed. Expect future Z06 models to get over 400 hp! That's something Dodge is going to have to take seriously.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

[nizmo]

The IS we'll have to see, the M5 great car but more of a sedan than a sports car kind of like the Audi S8. The vette, great car but 5.7L V8, come on you're comparing it to NA 3.2L V6. BMW got brand name, handling, styling and so much more than the Vette. The vette is good, but not great! Benz and AMG a lot of luxury and not enough performance, for the 100K they want. Screw AMG!!

[enzo@af]

Well, it's not a V6, but an inline 6. Also, comparing displacement is poor logic. That's like saying a Honda Civic is a better car than a Viper because it get's more horsepower per liter. As the old american saying goes...there's no replacement for displacement. You simply can't get as good torque numbers without size. That's why the E46 M3 has only 270 ft/lbs compared to the Z06's 385! Also, the new M3 has been criticized to have some understeer...that's right, understeer! That's not preferential for performance driving. I think the Z06 takes the cake here.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

[nizmo]

That is true the M3 is an inline 6, and not a v6. The torque issue has some bases as well, but the car's weight is also important.
The liters of the engine are important because it shows the complexity and the engineering design. Plus the M has so much more that that.. But you didn't mention anything about M racing heritage, or M quality versus the chevette .
M over Z06, that's the bottom line.

[enzo@af]

Quote: nizmo@af ( 2:31 pm on Dec. 1, 2000 )...the car's weight is also important.

Good point. Weight:Horsepower rations can be compared. The Z06's is 8.09 lbs per horsepower. Very good. So, the E46 M3's is somewhere around 9.5 lbs per hp. There, we've compared them and the Z06 wins.

Quote: nizmo@af ( 2:31 pm on Dec. 1, 2000 )...The liters of the engine are important because it shows the complexity and the engineering design...

The liters are important, and as I said, there is no replacement for displacement. A honda Civic Si get's roughly 100hp/L of displacement...almost twice that of a Viper. I'll take the Viper If you want to talk about engineering prowess, give Chevy a call. The LS6 is a wonderfully refined engine, and expect it to get even better!

Quote: nizmo@af ( 2:31 pm on Dec. 1, 2000 )... But you didn't mention anything about M racing heritage, or M quality versus the chevette ...

I also didn't mention Corvette heritage. However, BMW does have better reliability.

I love the M3, and I think they're great cars. I prefer the E36 styling, but the E46 is a wonderful car. However, I think, for the money, the Z06 is simply better.

[Dimex]

I think a Subaru WRX is a good car for the money. I mean, it has plenty of speed and I'm sure you could put a better turbo on it, right? And they don't cost much.

[JD]

My votes for best car performance for the money:
Honda Civic Si
Chevrolet Corvette Z06
...and how about an old Miata for say $8,000 to $10,000, drop in a 220-horse Toyota Supra inline 6 at about $900, and run a $5,000 twin-turbo set-up, intercool it for another $1,000, plus a $1,000 limited slip differential to help keep the rear wheels gripping with that 350-horse monster cranking awy under the hood. Now that is one killer ride for just $17,900!! And you'll be taking down that $45,000 Vette Z06 or that $70,000 Viper any day.

[nizmo]

Quote: JD ( 10:48 pm on Dec. 8, 2000 )

My votes for best car performance for the money:
Honda Civic Si
Chevrolet Corvette Z06
...and how about an old Miata for say $8,000 to $10,000, drop in a 220-horse Toyota Supra inline 6 at about $900, and run a $5,000 twin-turbo set-up, intercool it for another $1,000, plus a $1,000 limited slip differential to help keep the rear wheels gripping with that 350-horse monster cranking awy under the hood. Now that is one killer ride for just $17,900!! And you'll be taking down that $45,000 Vette Z06 or that $70,000 Viper any day.

Alright Psycho, take it easy . The honda Civic Si fuq that!! I'll take the Sentra SE over the SI anyday, or just wait for the Sentra SER (185 HP).

[JD]

Really? You like the Sentra SE over the Honda Civic Si? I admit (as you will in time find out) that I am heavily biased towards Honda products, but the Si is a real gem. Coming in at around $17,000, it has a great power delivery curve, especially for the money, and can still squeeze out great fuel economy (better than the Sentra SE I believe). And besides that, the Si is SO tunable.

As for the SER, I haven't heard much about that. Is that 185-hp from a naturally-aspirated from a four cylinder engine? Do you know its displacement off-hand?

[nizmo]

Don't worry one Day you'll see the light... Nissan is and always will be #1, but honda is ok too.
SE has DOHC, and SI has SOHC <-- Quality difference.
SE is just as tunable, i've seen SE' pull 9.0 1/4 miles
the SER will be 190HP and it'll be 2.2L but price will be 2K-3K more than the SE, it'll have 18' rims as options!! Watch out!!

[Dimex]

hmmmm...
Since when is the Si SOHC? I thought it was Dual.

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1 Corinthians 7:14

[Racer 20]

The best car for the money is the McLaren F1 LM!!!! ...no. I would say it is the Honda S2000 or Acura Integra type-R. But the ZO6 still has the best price/proformance ratio.