Lacquer question

[Enilder]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and I purchased Tamiya 1/24 NSX along with 1/24 Truck that I really wanted to get. I am saving that truck for now.
Anyways, I will be buying bunch of paints, adhesives, etc.

I looked through 80%+ of the Q&A section and I wasn't able to find the answer.

First of all, Lacquer is the clearcoat, right?
Then, when I apply lacquer, do I apply it on cloth and rub it? It seems to be a little bit different than waxing.
Can I use lacquer from Walmart or do I have to use specific lacquer (Tamiya, etc.)?

OT, when you paint a wheel, do I spray paint the entire wheel and detail lug nuts, etc. with brush?

Right now, I am not sure if I understand polishing/lacquering/clearcoating process. :/

Thanks!

[KevHw]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Lacquer is just a type of paint. It comes in all colours, including clear. For car modelling, it is sprayed on which is why people use either spray cans or invest in an airbrush. It is sprayed over a primer for better adhesion and colour reproduction. Usually, people apply clear lacquer as their final coat which is what gets polished to a glass-like finish.


Wheels are painted in the same manner. Spray the wheel however you want and then paint the wheel nuts by hand and a fine-tipped paint brush.

Searching the FAQ in under a minute I found these:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...2&postcount=44
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...69&postcount=1

[Enilder]

Originally Posted by KevHw

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Lacquer is just a type of paint. It comes in all colours, including clear. For car modelling, it is sprayed on which is why people use either spray cans or invest in an airbrush. It is sprayed over a primer for better adhesion and colour reproduction. Usually, people apply clear lacquer as their final coat which is what gets polished to a glass-like finish.


Wheels are painted in the same manner. Spray the wheel however you want and then paint the wheel nuts by hand and a fine-tipped paint brush.

Searching the FAQ in under a minute I found these:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...2&postcount=44
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...69&postcount=1

Thanks. I looked at those prior to posting but I wasn't sure. I've seen lacquer in clear only and I've not seen them in spray can. I don't have an access to airbrush and I won't be getting one until I am familiar with building a model.
Jay posted "clearcoating" and I wasn't quite sure what he meant compared to my knowledge about rl clearcoating. Do they sell this in a spray can?
Thanks.

[racer93]

Originally Posted by Enilder

Thanks. I looked at those prior to posting but I wasn't sure. I've seen lacquer in clear only and I've not seen them in spray can. I don't have an access to airbrush and I won't be getting one until I am familiar with building a model.
Jay posted "clearcoating" and I wasn't quite sure what he meant compared to my knowledge about rl clearcoating. Do they sell this in a spray can?
Thanks.

Most spray cans are lacquers. Some are enamels (like most Testors stuff), but all Tamiya spray cans and a lot of other cans are lacquers. Lacquers dry faster and are harder than enamels. Much easier to use, IMHO. YMMV, of course.

Daniel

[Enilder]

Originally Posted by racer93

Most spray cans are lacquers. Some are enamels (like most Testors stuff), but all Tamiya spray cans and a lot of other cans are lacquers. Lacquers dry faster and are harder than enamels. Much easier to use, IMHO. YMMV, of course.

Daniel

So, I need to buy a clear lacquer from Tamiya and use that as a clearcoat, right? I've been buying Tamiya paints so I guess I am "safe".
Thanks!

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by Enilder

So, I need to buy a clear lacquer from Tamiya and use that as a clearcoat, right? I've been buying Tamiya paints so I guess I am "safe".
Thanks!

Yes, Tamiya TS13 clear is lacquer clearcoat. It must be applied in many very light coats, instead of several wet heavy coats. Give plenty of time (an hour or so) between coats- don't try to put it on all at once, or eve all in one day.

But depending on the color you're using on the NSX, you may want to skip the clearcoat. Solid colors do not need clearcoat (although you can definitely clearcoat them if you like). Clearcoat is considered necessary for metallic/mica/pearl colors. If you're just starting modeling clearcoat will add difficulty and complication for your fist builds, but it likely won't improve their apperance much.

Tamiya TS is definitely the way to go. It is the best paint you can find in a spray can. It is worth the expense, and is the best line of spraycans to learn with.

Most spray cans are lacquers.

No, I wouldn't say that. Enamels, lacquers, and even acrylics can all be found in spray cans. Lacuers are by no means the most common. Read the can.

[Enilder]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Yes, Tamiya TS13 clear is lacquer clearcoat. It must be applied in many very light coats, instead of several wet heavy coats. Give plenty of time (an hour or so) between coats- don't try to put it on all at once, or eve all in one day.

But depending on the color you're using on the NSX, you may want to skip the clearcoat. Solid colors do not need clearcoat (although you can definitely clearcoat them if you like). Clearcoat is considered necessary for metallic/mica/pearl colors. If you're just starting modeling clearcoat will add difficulty and complication for your fist builds, but it likely won't improve their apperance much.

Tamiya TS is definitely the way to go. It is the best paint you can find in a spray can. It is worth the expense, and is the best line of spraycans to learn with.



No, I wouldn't say that. Enamels, lacquers, and even acrylics can all be found in spray cans. Lacuers are by no means the most common. Read the can.

The NSX is http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...sigb=12sljmdik

It comes as a matte purple paint, which I don't like. It's very far from what it should be. My only concern with the spray paint is the overlap. I will be making the spray stand with the wire hangar but in case if I miss a spot, how do I go fixing the spot? Do I put another layer over the whole car? I am actually gonna go to Walmart for X-acto knife, foam block (for spray stand to stand onto), and other small stuffs.
Thanks all!

[MPWR]

Ahh, the Raybrig NSX. Well the color is pretty easy to work with, but decals covering most of the body and clearcoating do make things more complicated. It's a great kit, but there are others that would be more simple, and that you'd probably stand a better chance at having it come out really well for your first build.

The more details and information you can give in your questions, the more helpful we can be.

What is your concern with overlap?

Plan on painting the car in 5 or even 10 light coats. Do not try to paint it all at once. Leave an hour or so between each coat, and if you see flaws and debris in the paint you can gently sand them out before spraying more paint. Lacquer is actually a very forgiving and easy to work with media, if you have the patience to work with it. Try to get it done quickly, and things can go badly in many different ways.

[KevHw]

Just like MPWR mentioned, the most important aspect I think for your first build is to take you time with everything. That way you can make sure you have everything ready and have planned how you'll do everything before commiting paint (or glue) to plastic.

I'm slightly confused as to why you say it comes with matt paint. They normally come in whatever colour plastic the molding is. Besides, that car has a glossy finish from what I've seen.
Also what do you mean by overlap? You spray paint onto the whole body. If you've missed spots, spray light coats again until it's all covered.

Make sure when you're buying the knife that the chuck (bit where the blade slots in) is metal. I've had to learn the hard way that the cheap plastic ones won't last as long or screw on as tightly. Also, be aware that some foams will melt if you spray lacquer onto them.

[Enilder]

Thank you. I just picked up X-acto knife from Walmart. It's made of metal (even handles).
About the overlap, I was thinking that even if you spray the entire body with spray can, there could be some thickness difference, resulting different shades or some sort. I am guessing it will NOT be the case unless I spray too much. I've actually seen this happen on car parts where I can see where the "cut off line" was. I hope I am making some sense...Sorry.

3 questions.
1) Do you guys prime every single part before painting? I don't think it's necessary for small part such as pedals and so forth. Also, what type of primer am I suppose to use? Is there a particular key word I should look for? Local shop is out of primer and I am thinking of buying one from Home Depot or something.
2) I bought super glue for arts/crafts. Will this melt the plastic? If I want to paint the pedal and attach to the other part, will I have to glue it before I paint because the glue leaves "foggy" marks after it cures?
3) How much will I have to apply plastic cement to actually deform/shrink the part? I am quite scared to use this one.

Thanks!

[Asmenoth]

Originally Posted by Enilder

3 questions.
1) Do you guys prime every single part before painting? I don't think it's necessary for small part such as pedals and so forth. Also, what type of primer am I suppose to use? Is there a particular key word I should look for? Local shop is out of primer and I am thinking of buying one from Home Depot or something.
2) I bought super glue for arts/crafts. Will this melt the plastic? If I want to paint the pedal and attach to the other part, will I have to glue it before I paint because the glue leaves "foggy" marks after it cures?
3) How much will I have to apply plastic cement to actually deform/shrink the part? I am quite scared to use this one.

Thanks!

1) Generally yes. The primer gives something for the paint to bite into and, in the case of the body of the car, a nice smooth surface. Now as for painting small parts, I do it anyway as I use different brands of paint and some will bead up and not cover very well on bare plastic. Once you get into using photoetch brass parts and resin detail parts, using a primer will be a must as it will provide a uniform color for the base coat. Use White primer for light colors and Grey for the darker ones. If you are not sure just use White. I usually use Tamiya's Fine White or Grey Primer. Another one I like is Gunze Sangyo's line of primers. I can't think of the brand off hand, but some people swear by a particular automotive primer that, unfortunately, is getting harder to find. The advantage to that automotive primer is you get more for your money.

As for using paint from Home Depot...can be done. I have used Krylon's clear coats from Micheal's Craft Store with pretty good results.

2) Superglue will not melt the plastic. While superglue will allow you to build the model quickly, it will not fuse the parts together. The fogging effect is from the fumes and is why modelers do not use it for clear parts. Tamiya's extra thin works well for clear parts, but the safest is Elmer's White Glue...if you get too much on the model, just use a damp q-tip or tissue to wipe it off. Now...small parts. If I can't get to them easily with a brush after gluing them in, I will paint them first. Usually I leave the part on the sprue and snip it off after the paint fully drys (you can tell it's fully dry if the part no longer smells like paint). Then I trim the excess plastic off, from where the part was attached to the sprue, and touch up the paint if needed. Now, here is something to remember...you should take your xacto knife and remove the paint from the part where you will be applying the glue, the part will glue down easier and be less of a mess.

I only use superglue for resin and photoetch metal parts, or a two part epoxy. I use Tamiya's Extra Thin liquid cement for building, though I still have a tube of the orange Testor's cement lying around. The Tamiya stuff is water thin and is applied with the brush that is in the cap. I like this stuff because the brush is small and pointed allowing you to apply the cement where you need to. Also, unlike the other types of glue, if you spill this stuff on you, your clothes or the carpet...nothing happens. It only reacts with model plastic. This stuff does melt the plastic...it welds it together, handy for getting rid of seam lines. I keep the tube Testors cement around because it is thick and helps keep small parts in place while it drys (DO NOT get the Testors cement near clear parts as it will fog the plastic like superglue).

3)To deform or shrink the part...a good sized blob will do. When using Testors tube cement...use a toothpick to apply the glue to the part, a little bit will be fine. When using the liquid cements like Tamiya, I will brush some onto each surface that will be glued together and hold them together for a few seconds. If I am gluing to large parts together, like the body of an airplane, I will take a brush load of glue and touch it to the seam line of the parts (usually from the inside if I can) and let the glue run down the entire seam of the two parts and hold them together.

[Enilder]

Originally Posted by Asmenoth

1) Generally yes. The primer gives something for the paint to bite into and, in the case of the body of the car, a nice smooth surface. Now as for painting small parts, I do it anyway as I use different brands of paint and some will bead up and not cover very well on bare plastic. Once you get into using photoetch brass parts and resin detail parts, using a primer will be a must as it will provide a uniform color for the base coat. Use White primer for light colors and Grey for the darker ones. If you are not sure just use White. I usually use Tamiya's Fine White or Grey Primer. Another one I like is Gunze Sangyo's line of primers. I can't think of the brand off hand, but some people swear by a particular automotive primer that, unfortunately, is getting harder to find. The advantage to that automotive primer is you get more for your money.

As for using paint from Home Depot...can be done. I have used Krylon's clear coats from Micheal's Craft Store with pretty good results.

2) Superglue will not melt the plastic. While superglue will allow you to build the model quickly, it will not fuse the parts together. The fogging effect is from the fumes and is why modelers do not use it for clear parts. Tamiya's extra thin works well for clear parts, but the safest is Elmer's White Glue...if you get too much on the model, just use a damp q-tip or tissue to wipe it off. Now...small parts. If I can't get to them easily with a brush after gluing them in, I will paint them first. Usually I leave the part on the sprue and snip it off after the paint fully drys (you can tell it's fully dry if the part no longer smells like paint). Then I trim the excess plastic off, from where the part was attached to the sprue, and touch up the paint if needed. Now, here is something to remember...you should take your xacto knife and remove the paint from the part where you will be applying the glue, the part will glue down easier and be less of a mess.

I only use superglue for resin and photoetch metal parts, or a two part epoxy. I use Tamiya's Extra Thin liquid cement for building, though I still have a tube of the orange Testor's cement lying around. The Tamiya stuff is water thin and is applied with the brush that is in the cap. I like this stuff because the brush is small and pointed allowing you to apply the cement where you need to. Also, unlike the other types of glue, if you spill this stuff on you, your clothes or the carpet...nothing happens. It only reacts with model plastic. This stuff does melt the plastic...it welds it together, handy for getting rid of seam lines. I keep the tube Testors cement around because it is thick and helps keep small parts in place while it drys (DO NOT get the Testors cement near clear parts as it will fog the plastic like superglue).

3)To deform or shrink the part...a good sized blob will do. When using Testors tube cement...use a toothpick to apply the glue to the part, a little bit will be fine. When using the liquid cements like Tamiya, I will brush some onto each surface that will be glued together and hold them together for a few seconds. If I am gluing to large parts together, like the body of an airplane, I will take a brush load of glue and touch it to the seam line of the parts (usually from the inside if I can) and let the glue run down the entire seam of the two parts and hold them together.

Thank you for your detailed explanation.
So primers I should get are...
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87096 (Brush)
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87044 (Spray)
and that adhesive...
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87038

So you do NOT recommend anything else for adhesives but that extra thin one. (Works both plastic and clear parts)

I actually bought Testors putty. Should I return it and get...
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87053 ???

None of these were there when I was there today

[Didymus]

A very useful glue is thick or medium super glue, also known as CyanoAcrylate (CA). In hobby stores, it's sometimes labeled "gap filling" CA. It's a lot easier to handle than either tube glue or regular (thin) super glue. I use only Gorilla Super Glue. It's medium thick and stronger and less brittle than other super glue. I don't recommend regular Gorilla Glue, however.

Unless you plan to paint your car red or a pastel color, you only need grey Tamiya primer. It's much easier to see defects on a coat of grey primer, and that's the point where you sand out any problem areas. White primer is mainly used as an undercoat for reds and light colors.

Somebody else may want to comment on this, but I don't think there's much need for the brush-type primer. The spray can should be sufficient.

Cleanliness is very important. Before you spray a coat of paint on a model, be sure it's clean. (Remember that your fingers leave oily fingerprints.) Most people scrub the model with soapy water, then rinse it thoroughly and either pat or blow it dry.

I personally prefer Squadron putty over Tamiya because it doesn't harden as fast. Different strokes.

Enjoy building that NSX! Keep us posted on how it's going.

Ddms

[Asmenoth]

Originally Posted by Enilder

Thank you for your detailed explanation.
So primers I should get are...
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87096 (Brush)
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87044 (Spray)
and that adhesive...
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87038

So you do NOT recommend anything else for adhesives but that extra thin one. (Works both plastic and clear parts)

I actually bought Testors putty. Should I return it and get...
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87053 ???

The Tamiya primers are reliable and spray on nice and smooth. Gunze Sangyo primers (and clear coats) are also quite good but harder to find. The Home Depot and Automotive primers will probably work well...but, the solvents might be too hot for plastic and could melt the model. If you want to try them, test them on some scrap plastic first. Heck some of us use regular, flat, paint as primer. For example, I sometimes use black paint as primer as a sort of pre-shading technique...usually used for gaming miniatures, planes and tanks. Now the paint will not be as smooth as the primer, but that can be fixed with some wet sanding.


Well...The Tamiya cement is what I use and it works very well. Most liquid cements, Tenax-7R or Ambro Proweld, work just as well...but I like the Tamiya stuff because of the well designed brush and square, harder to spill, bottle.

As for using the Tamiya cement on clear parts...it works well and will not fog them, but....because it is so thin you have to be careful with it as it has a tendency to get everywhere. For small clear parts, headlight lenses, Elmers White glue is safest. Heck, you could even use Future floor polish to attach them too (Future by the way is how you glue small photoetch parts to the inside of clear airplane canopies or photo etch automotive emblems (ones with out adhesive on the back) to car models that are allready painted).

Now, the putty. I have used Tamiya's various putties...white, gray and their two part polyester putty. I have used squadron putty (green and white), miliput, bondo and Mori-Mori. All work well for different uses...I have never used Testors putty and can't say if it's bad or not. Maybe someone else here has used it and can chime in. If the Testors putty is like others, when you apply it, used a laquer thinner moistened q-tip to clean off the excess before it drys so you will have less to sand.

[Enilder]

Originally Posted by Didymus

A very useful glue is thick or medium super glue, also known as CyanoAcrylate (CA). In hobby stores, it's sometimes labeled "gap filling" CA. It's a lot easier to handle than either tube glue or regular (thin) super glue. I use only Gorilla Super Glue. It's medium thick and stronger and less brittle than other super glue. I don't recommend regular Gorilla Glue, however.

Unless you plan to paint your car red or a pastel color, you only need grey Tamiya primer. It's much easier to see defects on a coat of grey primer, and that's the point where you sand out any problem areas. White primer is mainly used as an undercoat for reds and light colors.

Somebody else may want to comment on this, but I don't think there's much need for the brush-type primer. The spray can should be sufficient.

Cleanliness is very important. Before you spray a coat of paint on a model, be sure it's clean. (Remember that your fingers leave oily fingerprints.) Most people scrub the model with soapy water, then rinse it thoroughly and either pat or blow it dry.

I personally prefer Squadron putty over Tamiya because it doesn't harden as fast. Different strokes.

Enjoy building that NSX! Keep us posted on how it's going.

Ddms

I have used gorilla glue. Doesn't this cure as brown color?
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=87042
This is it, right?
For the fingerprint marks, etc. can you use acetone to clean and then paint? I am sure that even after you clean it with soapy water, you will be holding onto the part, which will leave fingerprints or some sort.

I was thinking that the brush type of primer would work better for small parts. Don't you usually waste more with small parts if you were to use spray cans?

Originally Posted by Asmenoth

The Tamiya primers are reliable and spray on nice and smooth. Gunze Sangyo primers (and clear coats) are also quite good but harder to find. The Home Depot and Automotive primers will probably work well...but, the solvents might be too hot for plastic and could melt the model. If you want to try them, test them on some scrap plastic first. Heck some of us use regular, flat, paint as primer. For example, I sometimes use black paint as primer as a sort of pre-shading technique...usually used for gaming miniatures, planes and tanks. Now the paint will not be as smooth as the primer, but that can be fixed with some wet sanding.


Well...The Tamiya cement is what I use and it works very well. Most liquid cements, Tenax-7R or Ambro Proweld, work just as well...but I like the Tamiya stuff because of the well designed brush and square, harder to spill, bottle.

As for using the Tamiya cement on clear parts...it works well and will not fog them, but....because it is so thin you have to be careful with it as it has a tendency to get everywhere. For small clear parts, headlight lenses, Elmers White glue is safest. Heck, you could even use Future floor polish to attach them too (Future by the way is how you glue small photoetch parts to the inside of clear airplane canopies or photo etch automotive emblems (ones with out adhesive on the back) to car models that are allready painted).

Now, the putty. I have used Tamiya's various putties...white, gray and their two part polyester putty. I have used squadron putty (green and white), miliput, bondo and Mori-Mori. All work well for different uses...I have never used Testors putty and can't say if it's bad or not. Maybe someone else here has used it and can chime in. If the Testors putty is like others, when you apply it, used a laquer thinner moistened q-tip to clean off the excess before it drys so you will have less to sand.

I will try to get the Tamiya cement along with gorilla super glue.

I don't think I will be starting until later this week when I get my primer. Sorry!

[edit] bottomline:
elmer white glue or tamiya extra thin cement for clear parts
gorilla super glue or tamiya extra thin cement for both body parts
tamiya light grey primer for primer

i guess...?