Engine Sounds...

[Intuit]

Regarding this thread: (valve seats falling)
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=162400

...what sort of sound did the engine make make before quitting ?

Some years ago I had a solid tapping sound in the head (1.9 not 2.0L) which turned out to be a single hydraulic roller-lifter. Roller on the hydraulic lifter locked-up. The roller was flat-spotted (like an old tire) and that wore and pitted the cam lobe. The lifter's location was second cylinder, exhaust lobe. This was pretty much inconsequential (no performance problems even with the bad lifter) as I replaced the bad lifter and drove it for another 60 or 80k miles before replacing the head gasket for failure at cylinder #4. The head was also repaired for a hairline crack running from the 2nd cylinder valve to the iron exhaust manifold; ditto for 3rd cylinder.

Okay so the lifter noise is back at about 233k miles. (about 40k post gasket/head job) Same noise you might hear for a brief second immediately after changing the oil, (which I just did BTW,) but a lot more tame of course. (normally I'll hold the pedal to the floor and crank it for 15 sec before starting it on an oil change to avoid that noise but forgot this time -- now the noise is somewhat permanent)

While I am about 98% sure there isn't a valve seat problem, I am curious as to what they actually do sound like. Thanks for the input.

Oh and 12Ounce... you're welcome to comment here.

[thisnametooktolong]

233k miles. drive it till it drops, if you dont like the noise.... use thicker oil and turn up the radio. I would also bet that your oil pressure is a little on the low side. you do know that the oil noid light does not turn on until the pressure drops to 12-7 psi

[mightymoose_22]

In my case I never heard any warning signs... by the time I heard anything at all it was way too late. I don't recommend the thicker oil option- it will just cause you to have bigger problems when the engine finally does fail. Use a stethoscope and try to isolate where the sound comes from. If you plugs are due to be replaced, consider changing them out and see if your sound goes away.

[Intuit]

Originally Posted by thisnametooktolong

233k miles. drive it till it drops, if you dont like the noise.... use thicker oil and turn up the radio. I would also bet that your oil pressure is a little on the low side. you do know that the oil noid light does not turn on until the pressure drops to 12-7 psi

Doesn't consume oil, exhaust is as should be and aside from the recently developed noise post oil change, is in otherwise great shape. Why waste a perfectly good vehicle that I've owned for over a decade ? Typical "throw it away" (or rather "destroy it") short sighted thinking...

[Davescort97]

When the intake seat started going bad it sounded like a lifter that wasn't pumping up. Just a tickity tick sound. Then, it started getting louder and sounded more like a light knock and I could hear it coming from the #4 cylinder. Rather than wait for the inevitable (had 180k) I pulled the head and replaced it before the seat dropped.

[Intuit]

Thanks for the replies Dave & MightyMoose. Dave, is that the 2.0L or 1.9L ? When you pulled the head, was any other work done, did the lifters show any damage and were they at all replaced ? (or was the entire head replaced ?)

My Brother no longer has his stethiscope which is what was used many years ago so I may try to use an empty tube from a roll of papertowels. If that's a no-go then I'll order one from O'Reilly's auto parts. But just by going on straight ear-shot it sounds like it's coming from the middle.

[12Ounce]

( ... with trepidation. LOL)

My experience with sound was much like Davescort97's; infrequent patches of noises (like noisey lifters, etc) followed by benenolent periods of silence and good performance. I suppose the seat was sometimes getting loose and then somehow finding itself snug back in place for a while. Not then knowing the hazard, we continued to drive until the motor quietly locked-up and began draining money.

[Intuit]

Confirmed same problem as before. Fourth cylinder intake hydraulic roller-lifter was flat-spotted. Unlike last time this one was flat-spotted in multiple places at a regular interval. thisnametooktolong, you lost the bet and yes I got sprayed when checking the engine with the valve cover off. So what do I get for the win ?

Replaced with one of my old roller-lifters and the tap is gone. A little hard to pick out but now hear what sounds more like a tick rather than a tap. Had only checked those two in the fourth cylinder so there are probably one or more bad ones in there also. I'll check them all later.

-Attachment Below- Pictured are three bad roller lifters. On the left is the one I just pulled at ~233k. The next two are the ones I pulled at around 120k. The middle one has a good roller but the bearings are going bad. Hung-up as I was rolling it. Can't get it to hangup again though. The one on the far right is the one that flat-spotted at ~120k.

Also pictured is my engine with the valve cover pulled.

It was then (~120k) that I had replaced all of them so I simply reused one of the known good ones that was originally in there at ~120k to replace the bad one I just pulled at ~233k. That's a pretty consistent wear pattern so I may not get much out of them (???). But they're super-cake to replace. If you're wondering they're $23/piece at CarQuest and O'Reillys. So even if you replace all eight like I did last time, that still beats a car payment by several hundred. :P

[12Ounce]

You probably are aware: ... on the Escort engine lifters, there is a faint mark on the top edge of lifters that is supposed to be facing the oil supply hole down in the head. These marks get really faint with time and wear, so I remark lifters with Wite-out before I remove them.

[Intuit]

Yeah they tell you to line up the pin-hole on the side of the lifter with the hole on the sidewall of the lifter well. That's what the mark was for. The alignment is necessary for the hydraulic press/button. That tiny pin hole is one possibility as to why thicker oil may not be a good idea; especially during cooler weather.

In my opinion the bearings packed into the rollers are too small and too few, so they wear out in 100k-150k. The one pictured on the far right has many missing on one side and are probably either attached to the oil pan magnet, or exited the engine in subsequent oil changes via the filter or drain plug hole.

Thanks for pointing that out to other folks who might attempt the repair. That's a critical detail 12Ounce.

[Intuit]

By the way, the valve cover bolts ............ VERY easy to snap'em as they're aluminum. So watch it and most definitely use a torque wrench to keep from breaking them off in the head.