Installing Tranny cooler advice ?

[Rodc]

Want to install a cooler because I bought a boat and will be towing #1800. Is this a DIY job? Any special tools etc required? Tranny shops are quoting about $250 for the install, but being as cheap as I am, was hoping to do it myself. A little worried about having to cut lines etc to get it plumbed.

Any hints or tips would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[spike88]

If one is "good with a wrench" (sort of speaking), then installing an aux tranny cooler on the Uplander / Montana van can be done themselves. For my DIY aux tranny cooler install on my 2009 Montana van, I did the following:

1 - Bought an "up to" 5,000 lbs aux tranny cooler from my local NAPA/UAP auto store. If wondering, I picked Hayden with same LPD Design and dimensions as: http://www.etrailer.com/pc-TRAN~HH41311.htm

Note: Do "shop around" because selling prices do vary for the exact same product.

2 - I bought 2 x steel vertical 1" x 1" 90 degree angle bars, cut to length, flattened both ends with hammer on cement garage floor, and bolted the aux tranny cooler to it. Then, I used self tapping screws and bolted the vertical bars to the front of my van's main rad support (both bottom and top). For pictures, surf:
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rSupport-3.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rSupport-2.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rSupport-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...futurehose.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...gdowngrill.jpg

Note: Many auto shops plastic "pull tie" the aux tranny cooler against the AC rad. I prefer to have 1-1.5" space gap between both rads. To me, I never did like sucking 2 rads against each other (even with felt pads between both rads). If doing the job themselves, it should have its own steel support system (IMO).

3 - With front plastic grill vents removed, I then reached deep inside and took an air compressor - air chissel and made the factory round "hose hole" into a larger square hole. If wondering, this is the round hole on the front passgener side of the front rad support - where the needed rubber hoses feed through.

4 - I bought a steel 90 degree elbow pipe at my local NAPA/UAP store as well. Cut / removed the upper rad's 90 degree steel hose and replaced with this new "much better" 90 degree steel elbow. Connected rubber hoses, fed the rubber hoses through the larger size "hose hole" opening (that was chisseled square), slid a larger rubber hose around each transmission rubber hose (where it feeds through the front rad support hole - to create grommet protection), then connected the rubber hoses to the newly installed aux cooler. For picture of this 90 degree steel elbow (also bought at my NAPA/UAP store), surf: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg

5 - Added in 1 quart of ATF Dexrom IV fluid. Do "double check" the year and use exact blend of ATF fluid for your year of van.

Today, I'd install my own aux tranny ATF cooler again - one rated to tow 5,000 lbs trailer. It took me 4 hours and 2 trips to my local NAPA/UAP Auto store. If I installed same aux cooler again, it would probably take me half amount of time. In all, installing aux transmisison ATF cooler on my 2009 Montana van cost me "parts only". To me, well worth the total job in cost savings. And by installing it myself, I know the job was done with "better then minimum" quality. re: 1-1.5" space from its AC rad and large rubber hose around each smaller rubber hose - for more rubbing protection. To me, this extra quality should be minimum quality within Auto Shops as well.

Hope this helps...

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[Rodc]

Spike88 thanks for the awesome play-by-play. Sounds like something I will tackle myself. You make a great point of being able to do the "little extras" that most shops couldn't be bothered with.

Couple questions if I could.
1)I have a 2003 Montana so mounting and hose routing might be a little different and I can work around that, but, how do you cut the lines? Hacksaw will put metal filings into the fluid and I can't see how you get a tube/pipe cutter in there, space wise.
2) Are the fittings into the rad threaded or some special quick connect fitting? Concerned I will need to buy a special "GM" tool.
3) How do you determine which is the input or output from the rad?
4) Plumbing wise, do you place the cooler before the rad or after the rad?

THanks again for the advise.

[spike88]

.

Here's some more info that might help your DIY install...

1) How do you cut the lines? Hacksaw will put metal filings into the fluid and I can't see how you get a tube/pipe cutter in there, space wise.

For me, I cut the top main rad line using a small pipe cutter. It was very hard to get my hands into position but with patients, it can be done. The "mini" pipe cutter I used looks like: http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Pi...ters/90722.htm
Note: A few years ago, think I paid $2.99 for simular looking mini pipe cutter at my local H/W store. Do shop around because prices do vary. This one seems to be way "over priced".

2) Are the fittings into the rad threaded or some special quick connect fitting? Concerned I will need to buy a special "GM" tool.

On my '09 Montana van, all fittings were standard box end wrenches with "normal" thread direction. In other words, clockswise to tighten down and counter clock wise to loosen (remove).

The 90 degree steel pipe (that I bought at my local NAPA/UAP store) took a normal box end wrench. If you cut the factory main rad upper pipe and remove its rubber outer washer, you can use a box end wrench on that fitting as well. To install new "better shape" 90 degree steel pipe, I used Seal-All (which is like a gasket glue for oil/gas tank applications) on its steel threads. Thus, sealing its threads much better. re: http://www.biosafe-inc.com/sealall.htm

3) How do you determine which is the input or output from the rad?

For me, I cut the pipe at the top of my van's main rad. For my previous GM van, it was the top main rad line as well. Since my rad's instructions stated to cut (splice into) top rad hose (for many GMs) and use a special order 90 degree elbow, I simply followed its provided instructions. If wondering, GM Corvette main rads use top hose as its rad's outflow oulet as well.

4) Plumbing wise, do you place the cooler before the rad or after the rad?

For aux rad positioning, the aux rad is "in front" of the AC rad. ATF "fluid" flow is from transmission into bottom of main rad, out the top of main rad, into bottom of aux cooler, out top of aux cooler and back to vehicle's transmission. re: http://www.etrailer.com/c-tran.htm


For lots a "plumbing" pictures on my van, surf:
http://www.etrailer.com/pc-TRAN~HH41311.htm for "up to" 5,000 lbs trailer + hills driving conditions.
http://www.etrailer.com/p-HH41310.htm for "between" 3,500 to 5,000 lbs trailer + normal driving conditions.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...Bottomhose.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...er-Tophose.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rillarea-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rillarea-2.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rillarea-3.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rillarea-4.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...ttomhose-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...dTophose-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...dTophose-2.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...dTophose-4.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...dTophose-5.jpg


Hope this helps as well...

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[Rodc]

Great info and the pictures are terrific. Thanks again for your time and help.

I see a project in my future for the weekend.

[1999montana]

I'll assume that the kit you want to add has rubber neoprene hose as part of the kit.

You don't have to cut any lines to hook up a cooler, unless the kit comes with steel lines to splice into the system.

If you look carefully at the air dam under the rad, there are two angled holes centered in the air dam about 12" apart. The holes in the dam are between the lower rad support and the plastic air dam.

You will have to open the holes slightly (with an Exacto knife or other sharp utility knife from below, lying on your back) to allow the rubber hose to pass through, then route your hoses. Position your new cooler with mounting brackets that don't restrict air flow or simply attach the cooler to the lip on the lower rad support. (Place a small wooden block of 1x2 between the rad support and the condenser when drilling to prevent damage to the AC).

There are two steel lines going to, and coming from the trans cooler in the rad. They are attached to the lines coming from the trans at an intermediate attaching point by two pieces of neoprene rubber hose that connect to the two lines from the radiator. (these two rubber hoses are immediately under the rad between the rad and the engine.)

All you have to do is disconnect ONLY the rad return hose line and join the rubber hose going to the cooler to this steel line coming from the rad.

Then the second rubber hose from the new cooler gets spliced to the rubber hose previously disconnected using either a piece of 5/16" steel tubing (to slip inside the two pieces of rubber hose) as a union or you can use one of those brass 5/16" ribbed unions for joining two rubber hoses together. Small heater hose clamps complete the connections.

No steel line cuts and no mess, other than draining trans fluid! I placed a small tub on my chest while routing and connecting the lines to catch the drips from the trans lines.

Also, if you want to transfer the cooler to a new vehicle, you have only to replace the one hose connection and remove the cooler and it's rubber hoses from the vehicle.

Sidebar: If you do cut the steel lines, use one of those small pipe cutters to do it. My pipe cutter will cut 1/2" water pipe all the way down to 3/16" brake line. It is about an inch and a quarter square and fits into tight spots. Bought it at Canadian Tire.

[rkvons]

I bought a jet ski last year. It seems to tow pretty easy, but I've been thinking about putting a rad cooler on my '98. After monitoring this thread, I am fired up to do it. Thanks guys.

[spike88]

Originally Posted by rkvons

I bought a jet ski last year. It seems to tow pretty easy, but I've been thinking about putting a rad cooler on my '98. After monitoring this thread, I am fired up to do it. Thanks guys.

During the many years of owning and repairing vehicles, I've come to the realization that auto makers build to "minimum" standards. They build based on "white board" math numbers and they also build on minimum requirements based on DMV/DOT rulings. For example, Personal Safety & Mechanical specs. Rarely does an auto maker over build something - unless they must (like large pickups that can tow 10,000 lbs in their factory towing packages). To save dollars, many auto makers build to minimums and "that's it". During the years, I also noticed that certain transmissions do NOT like heat. For example, 700R4 & 460LE (used in GM V6 4.3Ls) and 4T65E (used in GM V6 3.4 & 3.9Ls). These transmissions do great under "normal" driving conditions under "normal" weather conditions and under "normal" loads but when pushed above these expected normals, they have a high risk of failing. Take for example the 460LE used in Safari vans. Great transmission under "normal" conditions but when loaded down with people, on a hot day while stuck in city traffic while going up a slow traffic jam hill, its transmission oil heat goes vertical upwards. And, it isn't even towing a trailer behind it - which adds even more heat to its ATF. My local transmission specialist tells me to install an Aux Transmission cooler if: Towing anything. If loading down with more then 2 people. If driving in hilly country. If driving on hot summer days. If doing lots of city stop/go driving. If doing more then 1 of these items at the same time, an transmission cooler is mandatory (even if NOT used as a tow vehicle). And if doing many of these "stresses" at the same time, install a larger size AUX cooler then needed. For example, install cooler designed for 5,000 lbs trailer when vehicle's max trailer towing is 3,500 lbs. Thus, creating even more heat overload protection - when "stresses" with multiple things at the same time.

With the above in mind, I'd install an aux tranny cooler in your specific vehicle. Especially under conditions of towing a ski jet, loaded down with camping gear, driving on hot summer days and towing up boat ramps. Add in some stop/go city driving conditions and being cottage country, add in a few hills at the same time. Add all these "stresses" together and to me, aux cooler is mandatory (in your van). If buying an aux cooler for 3,500 lbs trailer, I'd spend a few more minor dollars and install a aux cooler for 5,000 lbs trailer. Especially since you also live in "super hot" summer region as well.

If unable to install yourself, then hire the job out. A few hundred dollars for aux cooler install is much less expensive then a tranny rebuild / replacement. Especially if you plan to keep your vehicle for many more years.

For more details about ATF heat ranges, surf: http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech...expectancy.asp


Hope this helps in your decision..


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[spike88]

1999montana,

Do you have pictures? I'd love to see pictures.

If wondering, I plan to install an aux tranny cooler in my wife's "run about" vehicle. It does lots of stop/go city traffic and a aux tranny cooler for 3,500 lbs trailer behind it would make its 3.4L engine / 4T65E transmission last much longer as well.

With your pictures, I can decide the best way to "route" its plumbing.

.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by spike88

My local transmission specialist tells me to install an Aux Transmission cooler if: Towing anything. If loading down with more then 2 people. If driving in hilly country. If driving on hot summer days. If doing lots of city stop/go driving. If doing more then 1 of these items at the same time, an transmission cooler is mandatory (even if NOT used as a tow vehicle). And if doing many of these "stresses" at the same time, install a larger size AUX cooler then needed. For example, install cooler designed for 5,000 lbs trailer when vehicle's max trailer towing is 3,500 lbs. Thus, creating even more heat overload protection - when "stresses" with multiple things at the same time.

With the above in mind, I'd install an aux tranny cooler in your specific vehicle. Especially under conditions of towing a ski jet, loaded down with camping gear, driving on hot summer days and towing up boat ramps. Add in some stop/go city driving conditions and being cottage country, add in a few hills at the same time. Add all these "stresses" together and to me, aux cooler is mandatory (in your van). If buying an aux cooler for 3,500 lbs trailer, I'd spend a few more minor dollars and install a aux cooler for 5,000 lbs trailer. Especially since you also live in "super hot" summer region as well.

If unable to install yourself, then hire the job out. A few hundred dollars for aux cooler install is much less expensive then a tranny rebuild / replacement. Especially if you plan to keep your vehicle for many more years.

For more details about ATF heat ranges, surf: http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech...expectancy.asp
.

Excellent advice.
I have always installed aux trans coolers on every vehicle I have owned, for exactly the reasons mentioned here. If/when I scrap them, I take the cooler off and put in something else.

I once had an '87 Mustang with a 2.3/auto. It was a basic car, no A/C.
I thought it's light weight, low power (90hp) and big radiator would mean the trans would never overheat, even without an aux. cooler. WRONG!

I cooked the trans in the Owen Sound area..... I was not towing and had no luggage, just one passenger. The trans severely overheated and dumped all its fluid on the ground (twice). I installed a cooler and never had another problem.

FWIW, don't bother buying a cooler based on weight being towed. Simply buy the BIGGEST cooler than will fit, every time. Some of these tiny coolers may be cheap, but simply are limited in capacity........ and there is no such thing as over-cooling a transmission.

[spike88]

No problem MagicRat.

Like you, I had a previous vehicle. Non-Towing vehicle. And doing mostly hiway driving, I felt an aux tranny cooler wasn't needed. A few years later, the vehicle's transmission goes bang. We limped it home and over to my tranny specialist's shop. Its ATF fluid was burnt (to my surprise) and its transmission needed a rebuild. It cost $1,200 for its tranny rebuild. And, I ended up installing a large aux tranny cooler in it "afterwards". Since that day going forward, its ATF always looked and smelt great. Lesson learned? I should have installed an aux tranny cooler in that "long haul" family trip vehicle many years ago. Just like you, I'm now a firm believer that many vehicle's need aux tranny coolers even if NOT towing a trailer (to become better then "minimum factory build").

Was told that going "too large" of aux tranny cooler makes its AC rad work "too much". Especially if aux tranny cooler is mounted infront of the AC rad. Thus, was told to size the aux tranny cooler based on driving conditions and not on physical "max size" that will fit in the front grill area. One or 2 size larger is "good" (IMO) but if physically too large, it might be over kill. And, put added stresses on the vehicle's AC system. Not too sure if this is true but to me, it makes sence.

Regardless of one's aux cooler "exact" size, adding an aux tranny cooler to "minimum" vehicle build is a good thing to do (IMO). Especially if multiple stresses hit the vehicle at the same time.

.

[1999montana]

Originally Posted by spike88

....Do you have pictures? I'd love to see pictures....With your pictures, I can decide the best way to "route" its plumbing....

Boy, you have no idea how much rust you are dealing with until the camera becomes your eyes.

I'm brutal with a digital camera, but here goes.

The double heater hose clamp is the line going back to the Trans, joined with a piece of 5/16" steel pipe.

I linked the two clamps together with a nylon tie to prevent the hoses from 'walking' along the pipe and disconnecting.

The steel pipe that is in the way of the picture is the power steering cooler line.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...ingtotrans.jpg

One of the hoses coming from the steel line that exits from the top of the Rad.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...ughairdam2.jpg

A side view showing the routing through the air dam and back to the Trans.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...sandairdam.jpg

Your perspective: - Engine is at the top of the picture, Rad and cooling fans at the bottom. The two steel lines running closest to the Rad are the Trans cooler lines. The steel line with the re-usable heater hose clamp is the Trans cooler return line from the Rad. The third line running along the cross member just above the two steel Trans lines is the cooler for the power steering.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...fromabove2.jpg

The Auxillary Cooler with the hoses going through the air dam.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...randhoses2.jpg

This is not elegant.

I should probably hoist the lines up out of the way so they don't snag on anything, and probably will in the next few days or so.

[spike88]

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1999montana.

Thanks for taking and posting the pictures of your van's aux tranny cooler install. Based on your pictures, I now have a "visual" - on how you installed it on your van.

Much appreciated.

.

[rkvons]

Okay, don't reply with stuff like "You're crazy" or anything, but here's a quick story for you. Back about 27 years ago, my wife and I spontaneously decided to go on a road trip from Illinois to California. Unfortunately the only vehicles we had at the time were a 1980 Cutlas LS diesel and a Chevette of about the same year. I can't be sure about it because it was my wife's car before we got married. Anyway, We had three kids and camping gear. The Cutlas was out, because I already had problems with the engine. We decided to go with the Chevette. We were in a hurry (you know, spontaneous decision), so I told the wife to contact the local rental agency about a trailer for it. She says they have one and go check it out. So I take the Chevette over there and here is the huge (in Chevette terms) trailer. Probably 10 feet long. It was way too big. Right away I told them I was not sure about it, but they hitched it up and I took it out of there. As I leave, I have my hand on the shaft of the console shifter, which is going into the transmission. I'm feeling the temperature of it as I drive and it is getting hot. Within minutes it was burning, so I turned around and took the trailer back. I looked around and saw a couple of these little clamshell luggage trailers that could almost be towed behind a motor cycle. I asked about them and they said they were available. I took one. After I got home, I thought about how hot the trans got and I went out and bought and installed a trans cooler on the Chevette (still before the trip). We filled the trailer and the back of the Chevette, put the kids in the back and went all the way to California and back without any problems. We even went through death valley with the air on. There was one time on the way back when we were going through the rockies where I had to have my foot all the way to the floor to go up some of the hills. And it wasn't for just a few seconds, it was minutes. Going downhill, I used the trans to slow me down. We had a little plastic thermos like cooler sitting on the floor in the back. We pulled into a rest area and I could not get it off of the floor. Evidently, the catalytic converter got so hot, it heated the floor so much that the cooler melted into the carpet. It was incredible! I only had one credit card, Sears. I thought I could pull into Sears stores to get gas. Nope! When I came home three weeks later, I had $10 left, which was enough to feed my family at Mcdonalds. The car, (including trans) was solid the whole trip.

[Rodc]

Well I visited the local NAPA store here and of course they don't have any listing/idea of the 90* elbow that Spike88 mentioned. Living here in Canada seems like a third world country sometimes

Can anyone provide a mfr p/n so that I can find the part myself.

Thanks much.