Another brick on my head

[G0ldRush]

I think I'm going crazy about mechanic...just today my 302 just stalled, the story is that after my engine was overhauled , I had that clapping noise coming from front of engine, I thouight that was just a valve clattering nope, now i can see that my rotor is not moving a bit when I crank the engine, isthe timing chain probaly broke up or the crankshaft keyway. I will dismantle the thing tomorrow and see. My question is: what makes a timing chain strech, the last chain I put is last year before the overhaul could that chainworn out fast with the bad main bearing or does the reground crank has something to do with it


Den

[rhandwor]

Pull the distributor first the gear has a pin which may have broke. You could have a bad key way. A chain shouldn't have stretched that much. You could have a broken cam shaft or trashed bearing.
I would talk to your local machine shop for advise.

[toddman67]

Is it possible that the cam thrust plate retainer came loose or is missing. The cam will walk out the front, thus no distributor gear to cam contact. As mentioned before check dist. gear for failure. some gears were made of brass.

[G0ldRush]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

Pull the distributor first the gear has a pin which may have broke. You could have a bad key way. A chain shouldn't have stretched that much. You could have a broken cam shaft or trashed bearing.
I would talk to your local machine shop for advise.

Hi again here,s some news, I took off the timing cover and check everyrthing there was okay and realign the timing mark, and check for bent worn shaft gear of the distributor everything okay. reinstall everything tine to 6 degrees and engine start up idle good no misses but when i put in gear it stalls, I wait 5 hours before restarting and then it didnt stall but it was cold engine, i check the egr valve for good operation and make sure its close position when idling Ok for that. I cleaned th IAC too. PCV is new I know the vacuum is good but couls it be a interlal leak???

[G0ldRush]

Originally Posted by toddman67

Is it possible that the cam thrust plate retainer came loose or is missing. The cam will walk out the front, thus no distributor gear to cam contact. As mentioned before check dist. gear for failure. some gears were made of brass.

Hi Todd the plate is tight and torqued as specification thanks for the tip it could happened too but i'm afraid likle I reply to rwandor that I have an internal vacuum leak.



Den

[toddman67]

I guessed that there was something wrong when you said there was no action at the distributor when cranking. What did you find with that? I've seen several situations where the gears were worn enough to stop the distributor from rotating, The broken pin syndrom would be a likely problem as well.

[rhandwor]

If the distributor doesn't move it won't run I assume the screws were in the rotor. Hold by hand and check for something broken. I've had the top catch and bend the metal blades that run through the pickup badly before and purchased a rebuilt distributor. After I found this I didn't try to spin it by hand.
If doing the other tests suggested don't show you anything. Put a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt. Use a rag and try to put a pair of vise grips on the distributor shaft and try to get something to shift.
Also feel the distributor I've found worn bushings in them before but the rotor still moved.
Use a strong flashlight and look in the hole for a broken part in the block.
Keep looking until you find the problem.
Make sure the hold down clamp isn't broken they will come upward and quit working.

[G0ldRush]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

If the distributor doesn't move it won't run I assume the screws were in the rotor. Hold by hand and check for something broken. I've had the top catch and bend the metal blades that run through the pickup badly before and purchased a rebuilt distributor. After I found this I didn't try to spin it by hand.
If doing the other tests suggested don't show you anything. Put a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt. Use a rag and try to put a pair of vise grips on the distributor shaft and try to get something to shift.
Also feel the distributor I've found worn bushings in them before but the rotor still moved.
Use a strong flashlight and look in the hole for a broken part in the block.
Keep looking until you find the problem.
Make sure the hold down clamp isn't broken they will come upward and quit working.

I found out that my distributor shaft had a little play verticaly about 3/16 is that normal? would this affect something or when it's seated the (play) just getting tight?

[rhandwor]

I think you should take the distributor to an automotive machine shop. Normally they give advise free. They sell camshafts cheaper than most parts stores. They will work with you to solve the problem. If the distributor is good it almost has to be either a camshaft or bearings, by asking questions they can give you some good advise. I'm surprised you haven't found the problem.
With the distributor in does it turn if you roll over the engine. You can use the starter if it put back together.
I have found crankshafts in two pieces so the camshaft can be broken between the pulley and gear.

[G0ldRush]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

I think you should take the distributor to an automotive machine shop. Normally they give advise free. They sell camshafts cheaper than most parts stores. They will work with you to solve the problem. If the distributor is good it almost has to be either a camshaft or bearings, by asking questions they can give you some good advise. I'm surprised you haven't found the problem.
With the distributor in does it turn if you roll over the engine. You can use the starter if it put back together.
I have found crankshafts in two pieces so the camshaft can be broken between the pulley and gear.

Since I reinstalled the disdributor and timing the engine it's running fine at idle and cruising but I have this loud clapping noise... it comes from the back left side just below the coil pack, could that be a sticker lifter?

[rhandwor]

They sell product to free up sticky lifters at the parts store. Otherwise pull a valve cover and watch try oiling it and pumping to get it working.

[G0ldRush]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

They sell product to free up sticky lifters at the parts store. Otherwise pull a valve cover and watch try oiling it and pumping to get it working.

Well today is a good day positive, I took off the throttle body for clean up and guess what I found? one of the two vacuum inlet on the side was stuck with carbon the little tiny rectangle hole inside off the papillon .I took a paper clip an inserted to clean it put some kerosene and compress air. I cleaned the IAC too. Put back togheter and started the van now it doesnt stall anymore but I will have to re-time a little to get maximum power.

Thanks for listening again

Denis

[G0ldRush]

Did a compression test today, on my 302 1989 van
1- 178
2- 152
3-150
4-152
5-150
6-178
7-179
8-60
number 8 cylinder is almost dead leaking or broken ring thats why I have blues smoke and that knocking noise hehehehe, so I will change that piston ring soon without removing the engine it's on the easy side glad i'm lucky.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by G0ldRush

Did a compression test today, on my 302 1989 van
1- 178
2- 152
3-150
4-152
5-150
6-178
7-179
8-60
number 8 cylinder is almost dead leaking or broken ring thats why I have blues smoke and that knocking noise hehehehe, so I will change that piston ring soon without removing the engine it's on the easy side glad i'm lucky.

Pour about an ounce of oil into the spark plug hole and try the compression test again on #8. If the compression increases, then it's the rings. If the number stays the same, you probably have a leaking valve, instead of a bad piston/rings.

Ii you go ahead on the rings, count on changing the entire piston. If it really is knocking, the skirt has probably collapsed and/or is cracked and is no good.

You will need a honing tool and a drill to prepare the cylinder wall.

The honing tool looks like a metal toilet brush. Place it in the drill, and place it in the bore. Spin it while moving the hone up and down in the bore.
Watch this video to get an idea of how fast the hone should rotate and how fast you need to move it in the bore. Ignore the videos suggestion about measuring the bore, using different hone grades etc, that's only required for new engines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfh6AZxL08

Hone enough to remove any wear scratches from the cylinder wall and to leave a nice cross-hatch pattern. But do not remove any more material than is necessary.

Get a machine shop or decent parts store measure the old piston to confirm diameter.You said the engine was 'overhauled'. If the engine was rebuilt before, an oversize piston may have been fitted, thus yo uwill need to get a new piston and rings to match.

Consider having a machine shop press off the old piston and press on a new one to the connector rod. It.s possible to do with a good press/vice, but be careful, or you will wreck the piston.

BTW if there is a noticible 'ridge' at the top of the cylinder wall, the cylinder is probably too badly worn to get away with just replacing one piston and rings A rebore is necessary.

[G0ldRush]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

Pour about an ounce of oil into the spark plug hole and try the compression test again on #8. If the compression increases, then it's the rings. If the number stays the same, you probably have a leaking valve, instead of a bad piston/rings.

Ii you go ahead on the rings, count on changing the entire piston. If it really is knocking, the skirt has probably collapsed and/or is cracked and is no good.

You will need a honing tool and a drill to prepare the cylinder wall.

The honing tool looks like a metal toilet brush. Place it in the drill, and place it in the bore. Spin it while moving the hone up and down in the bore.
Watch this video to get an idea of how fast the hone should rotate and how fast you need to move it in the bore. Ignore the videos suggestion about measuring the bore, using different hone grades etc, that's only required for new engines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfh6AZxL08

Hone enough to remove any wear scratches from the cylinder wall and to leave a nice cross-hatch pattern. But do not remove any more material than is necessary.

Get a machine shop or decent parts store measure the old piston to confirm diameter.You said the engine was 'overhauled'. If the engine was rebuilt before, an oversize piston may have been fitted, thus yo uwill need to get a new piston and rings to match.

Consider having a machine shop press off the old piston and press on a new one to the connector rod. It.s possible to do with a good press/vice, but be careful, or you will wreck the piston.

BTW if there is a noticible 'ridge' at the top of the cylinder wall, the cylinder is probably too badly worn to get away with just replacing one piston and rings A rebore is necessary.

Hi magic and thanks so much for the info, those pistons are the original from 1989 standard, the overhaul were made to the crank cam oil pump and gasket set. I re-done the compression test on number 8 cylinder and pour some oil (wet test)in the cylinder it when up to 30 60 and finally to 90 psi after five revolution. So it's the rings? by the way what cause that knocking sound piston slap probaly, if the compresssion ring fail it helped the piston to slap??