Buying a Cavalier... what year?

[Mojo027]

I am thinking of buying a car this summer. I have never owned my own vehicle before, but I would like to buy one soon to keep for at least 3-4 years.

I drove a 1997 Honda Civic last summer, and have always liked imports because of their good mileage, resale value and reliability. But I've decided on a early-mid 2000's Cavalier or Sunfire with low mileage. Because they are cheaper to buy, still very reliable, and there are tons of them junked for spare parts around my town.

My question to you guys is...

Are there any product years (in early-mid 2000's) to avoid or that are particularly good for one reason or another for the Chevy Cavalier or Pontiac Sunfire?

[Classicrocjunkie]

Avoid all of them like they are the plague.... Honestly.

If you HAVE to get one, buy one with an ecotec motor 5 speed, no abs.. save you a load of headaches down the road.

[Mojo027]

Originally Posted by Classicrocjunkie

Avoid all of them like they are the plague.... Honestly.

If you HAVE to get one, buy one with an ecotec motor 5 speed, no abs.. save you a load of headaches down the road.

Wait........ what?

Why? Too many problems, or what?

[J-Ri]

Originally Posted by Classicrocjunkie

Avoid all of them like they are the plague.... Honestly.

That's interesting, always figured you liked them. Did you just blow a motor or something?

Anyway, I like them a lot. I don't care about road noise or a harsh ride, and those are the only two things about them I've heard that some people don't like. In my experience, they are at least as reliable than any other car, and get great gas mileage... unless you bolt a supercharger on it, then it goes down a lot, but I'm still getting over 30 MPG driving much harder than I did before the S/C. I agree, only buy one with an Ecotec. The previous engines 2.2 OHV and 2.4 DOHC weren't very good. The 2.2 OHV will run forever, but it doesn't make very good power. I think the latest one is about 115HP(?) don't quote me on that, but it's not very much. Earlier ones I believe were as low as 90HP. The 2.4 DOHC makes about the same HP as the Ecotec (5 more, actually), but the heavy cast iron block makes the 2.4 slower and gets less MPG. The extra weight up front makes the already "average" handling even worse. They also weren't known for lasting a long time. One I had in a Grand Am made it to 198,000 miles before it spun a rod bearing (somewhat common on them). An engine really should last longer than that. I personally prefer a manual transmission, but the automatics in the Cavalier don't have any more problems than any other auto. Flushing the ATF is very important and will end up costing quite a bit because you really should flush a transaxle about every 30k miles. Flushing is still much cheaper than rebuilding. ABS is something that I would take if I found an otherwise good car. I don't like it personally, but have had cars in the past that had it. I got lucky and found a nearly perfect '04, M/T, no ABS, crank windows... very bottom of the base models except for the CD player. Almost nothing that can go bad on it.

[Classicrocjunkie]

No, after owning 2 of them since 2002... I know them inside and out. They are poorly designed and at the only point in time I ever liked one was after dumping roughly $20K into after spending $8k buying it. Even then it wasn't reliable for shit... If you don't mod them, then yea I guess they are an ok car, looking back I wish I had bought an import. I still have the sunfire, and only reason I am keeping it is because it only has 56k miles and I will drive that thing into the ground so I don't have to drive my new one in bad weather or winter.

My new car will be delivered in mid July, I cannot wait! Just put an $8k deposit on it.

I'll let the guessing begin on that, only clue I'll give is that its coming stock with a turbo and I'll still have a $20k loan out.

[J-Ri]

Cobalt SS? I almost bought one when I ended up buying my Cavalier. Probably would have bought one if the dealer salesmen weren't such a-holes, or if they could answer very simple questions about the car. There was also no way for me to even test drive one without traveling hundreds of miles, and they gave me absolutely no confidence that they could even order the right configuration for me.

The only problem I've had with mine is the synchronizers for 3rd and 4th going out completely. Gonna have to double clutch and/or 1-2-5 it for a while. I think I can blame that on the previous driver since it would crunch gears a bit downshifting into 3rd no matter what I did when I first bought it... that scenario just didn't come up on the test drive

[Classicrocjunkie]

nope... 09 wrx

[Jmrec100]

I would agree with buying an import even though I have been very fortunate with my 1999. I bought it with 99K on the car but a used engine with 11,000 miles on it. The previous owner trusted pep boys to diagnose her problem - BIG MISTAKE. Ended up blowing the bottom end. Since I needed a car , my friend had this car with a new Used engine. So far, with 260,000 I have been fortunate.
So far, the ABS/brake light stays on. Went thru 2 alternators (thank you for lifetime warranties), one water pump, 2 batteries, the dashboard has cracked to pieces, the front brake driver side caliber assembly was stripped out (I helicoiled it with a $70 kit!),several front brake pads, one rear drum turned egg shaped - couldn't tell until replaced it, heater coil leaked, AC quit working, interior light cover doesn't stay anymore, both visors fell apart mechanically as well as physically, rear view mirror doesn't stay fixed anymore (this is my 2nd one), noisy, paint is awful, I consider mine to be very lucky to be still running. And I have been told that too. My car is due to be buried soon . I expect maybe another 30,000 miles if lucky. If you want something reliable, buy foreign. Unfortunately. I like the styling but GM just doesn't care to build good cars. I bought this one only because it was cheap. I drive 40,000 miles a year. I am lucky its still alive. Looks like a disaster because it is.... Just not built well. What saved mine, is I change oil etc often. Oil every 3,000 miles and use Castrol semi synthetic. Surprisingly, no oil leaks. No burning oil either. Anyone I talked to about their cavaliers don't believe the good luck I have had.
The big plus with this car, can easily find them in the junk yard for parts. LOL

[manicmechanix]

I agree with just about everything J-Ri said. I think the Cavalier/Sunfires are a very reliable and durable car for their class. they're a pretty simple design. I would go with the later year ones around '02-'05 or so with the Ecotec and 4 speed AT. To be honest I don't know how people can say well my GM car has 200-300,000 miles, I haven't really replaced anything major but buy an import they're better GM is junk. Well repair shops have imports in them and the junkyards are full imports with not that many miles. I see quite a few GM cars on the road over 20 years old but few imports that old even though they sold more of them in a lot of cases.

[J-Ri]

I'm going to tear this post up a little bit... nothing personal

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

I would agree with buying an import even though I have been very fortunate with my 1999. I bought it with 99K on the car but a used engine with 11,000 miles on it. The previous owner trusted pep boys to diagnose her problem - BIG MISTAKE. Ended up blowing the bottom end. Since I needed a car , my friend had this car with a new Used engine. So far, with 260,000 I have been fortunate.

"An import" is a very vague statement. The Korean ones are junk. Japanese are about equal to American cars. They really are. I had a Toyota Tercel, it was the absolute worst car I have ever owned. Things broke monthly and were expensive to fix. On the contrary, I had a Grand am that made it to 198k miles before I spun a rod bearing. Nothing went wrong with that car till it blew a rod out the side of the block. I drove it VERY hard, as I do all my vehicles. Maybe you just have to give GMs some WFO driving daily to make them more reliable and long lasting Also had a great Beretta that I totaled when I rolled it into a ditch. Even after that I drove it every day for almost a year. I just hammered the roof back close to where it should have been and sealed where a fence post went through the roof and it was good to go. I replaced the thermostat and a wheel bearing on it, nothing else, it had 160k miles on it when I sold it. The people I sold it to still drive it, and since we have close to the same commute, I can conservatively estimate it's mileage as over 200k now.

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

So far, the ABS/brake light stays on. Went thru 2 alternators (thank you for lifetime warranties), one water pump, 2 batteries, the dashboard has cracked to pieces, the front brake driver side caliber assembly was stripped out (I helicoiled it with a $70 kit!),several front brake pads, one rear drum turned egg shaped - couldn't tell until replaced it, heater coil leaked, AC quit working...

What was causing the ABS/brake light to come on? Is it something un-fixable? Only the first alternator was GM, the others were whatever brand you replaced them with. The cooling system needs to be flushed or seals and gaskets start to deteriorate. Although I agree that the factory AC Delco batteries are as bad as the WalMart ones, that's a wear item. They go bad, and the imports are no better. The interiors are made of hard plastic which gets brittle with age, mine's got a good crack in the dash too. Someone striped the caliper bolt, you can't blame that on the car! (off the subject, you waaay over paid for the hela-coil!)With that many miles, you go through some brake pads, every car does. As for the drum, it just got too hot... riding the brake/leaving the parking brake on slightly or having the cable rust and hold on a bit. That happens in all cars if it's not used regularly. Heater core was also most likely due to the cooling system being neglected. AC systems quit working, and it's actually more common on imports from what I've seen

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

interior light cover doesn't stay anymore, both visors fell apart mechanically as well as physically, rear view mirror doesn't stay fixed anymore (this is my 2nd one), noisy, paint is awful...

Did the dome light cover just fall off one day or did someone break it while changing the light? Visors... can't say I've seen that before... maybe a defect, I really can't say (same for the mirror). Maybe harder than normal use? My sister's got a '96 that's in nearly perfect condition (interior especially) and all that's been fixed on hers was a leaking trans pan gasket. They are noisier than some cars, but quieter than some. Bad paint... how often do you wash it? I thought they fixed the paint after the mid 90s, my sisters '96 is fine, just some dents. Damn Cavaliers dent so easy

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

I consider mine to be very lucky to be still running. And I have been told that too. My car is due to be buried soon . I expect maybe another 30,000 miles if lucky. If you want something reliable, buy foreign. Unfortunately. I like the styling but GM just doesn't care to build good cars. I bought this one only because it was cheap. I drive 40,000 miles a year. I am lucky its still alive. Looks like a disaster because it is.... Just not built well. What saved mine, is I change oil etc often. Oil every 3,000 miles and use Castrol semi synthetic. Surprisingly, no oil leaks. No burning oil either. Anyone I talked to about their cavaliers don't believe the good luck I have had.
The big plus with this car, can easily find them in the junk yard for parts. LOL

260,000 miles and you consider yourself lucky it's still running? I would sure think so. I've seen more Toyotas and Hondas with junk engines under 100k than I have Chevys. I counted 4 things that were legitimate complaints about the car, the rest were either broke by a person or neglected. It also doesn't burn or leak oil, and the (assumed neglected) transmission has lasted a long time! That's on a 260k car, what do you expect for the cheapest car they make!? People hear about Hondas and Toyotas going 300-400 k miles and think that's the rule. That's the exception. Given the number of our customers who drive Japanese vs. American, there is a higher percent of the Japanese cars in for repairs/expensive maintenance. This blind following of what the media says is why we're loosing jobs in America. What consumer reports and other don't tell you is that the Japanese cars are maintained much better than American cars. Partly due to the American automakers saying things are "lubed for life" and don't need the fluid changed until it needs to be rebuilt. Now if you maintain a Chevy, it will keep going and going. While I agree that they are a long way from where they were in the '80s and earlier (except for rust issues), they're still good cars. They have to cut the cost of materials so they can pay the greedy union workers, while the Japanese companies don't have that problem in Japan. If people didn't sell out their own country and buy Japaneese cars, American cars would still be as good as they were before everyone jumped ship. There are a lot in salvage yards, but take a look at the ones on the road. I'd say they're the most common in/on both. That makes sense if you think about it. And most that I've seen in salvage yards have collision damage which is presumably why they're there.
/end rant
sorry

[JStumpalump150]

my z24 has 120,000 miles on it and still runs like a champ, in fact im taking it to race in an autocross this weekend, lol. my interior is mint and the paint is perfect (minus the few scratches from my sister leaning her bike on the car and the messed up bumper from getting run off the road into a gaurd rail...GRRR) i think if you take care of the car it will return the favor, there are just a lot of shit cavaliers out there because of the owner, not the car its self. i change my oil every 3,500 miles, give my car a bath every couple weeks, and seafoam the engine every 10,000 miles or so and it is still running strong. i mean there are probably 100 cavaliers for every 1 or 2 imports you see on the road so statisticaly cavaliers will have more problems because there are more of them to break and mostly it can be due to the user. i have seen my share of crappy cavaliers and i can say 95% of the time it is because of who owns them, but i have also seen some nice ones like mine and i also contribute that to the owner that takes car of them.

[Jmrec100]

its ok to disagree. Ive had several toyotas, subarus too. LOved my old Subaru. And my toyota was great. Sorry, but the tercel is the bottom of the barrel. I do take care of my cavaliar. But there are just some "cheap" things done to this car. One being the interior. It has been awful since day one. The dash cracked at about 110,000 miles. I do drive it hard. I drive 130 miles a day, at 80mph then down to of course stop and No go traffic in Los Angeles.
I replaced the original GM alternator at 110,000 miles. My replacements have lasted longer.
I am not complaining about it. I expect it.
My primary beef with the car is the cooling system. I bypassed that sensor because it would let the car get too far on the hot side for my comfort. I replaced the sensor with a factory sensor believing it was faulty even though it tested fine. The mechanics told me (and this forum) that these cars run hotter because of the designed in sensor and computer. So I put in a switch with a relay so I can trip it on when its hot outside. I think that has helped the longevity. Also, little things like the gas gauge has Never worked. I go by mileage. Just lately, the dash readout on the odometer is failing. As far as mileage, this car has the LEAST amount of mileage I ever had on a car. I drive them to the grave. I do take care of them on their journey there. I treat my cars as work vehicles. Which brings up one small complaint. It can't carry anything. The trunk partition between the interior and the trunk when you lower the seat really limits the item you can carry. I carried a bookshelf ontop of the roof because it didn't fit. LOL I know, its a car. But all my other cars, Toyota Corolla were able to carry these same items. I treated my Camry with respect and did not do this type of carrying with it.
I do all the mecessary maintenance. Yes, tranny changes, coolant changes, all the fluid changes to keep it going. Its my bread and butter. I will admit, I am more inclined towards chevy than previous.
All in all, I am satisfied with My car. But I ran into so many people who have not had the good luck I have had. Had found Noone who has had theirs past 150,000 miles. Even in the junk yards, the odometers don't reach 200,000 miles. Most of my cars, I traded or sold or "buried" with over 350,000 miles. I take care of them mechanically. Looks, well, I won't be picking up any babes in it. Not in this car.

[JStumpalump150]

im not saying imports are not nice, heck i would love to have an 06 civic or a newer tiberon, there are a few others i would not mind either, im just saying cavaliers are not horrible

[Classicrocjunkie]

Meh...

Notorious problems;

Strut mounts go often 95-05
Wheel bearing too 95-05
Rear defrost issues all years
Headlight wiring harness issues
2.4L Spinning main bearings
95-97 OHV blowing HG's
98-02 OHV VC leaks
95-99 Isuzu trannys are pure rubbish
00-05 Getrag blowing snychros

Shall I continue?


I've replaced 3 sets of strut mounts in my 2 cars ( 2 sets on the 99 and one on the 04 sunfire), 4 front wheel bearings ( GM never installed a rear seal) 2 rear wheel bearings on the 99... both of my J's have less than 60k on them. Just had to do the sunfire's wheel bearings a couple weeks ago at 54k miles.

Yup, thats some quality right there..

[manicmechanix]

What's really fun is imports break, need repaired and end up in the junk yard without all that many miles, but some people pretend like they don't. The proof is in the pudding. You see more old high mileage GM cars still on the road despite as many or more imports being sold. I've known of several J-bodys and few if any had the problems mentioned. Why don't some people talk about the small hard working engines, timing belts, interference engines, problem distributors, valve adjustments, squeaky brakes, rusted out exhaust on civics and other imports? They never mention or down play the very common problems with imports, but if a GM car has one or two problems within 150,000 miles they pound on it. Funny.