Weird Noise COming from Engine

dwbailey · #1 04-13-2009, 12:47 PM

I have a 95 Escort 4 door hatch with the 1.9 engine and the engine is making a really weird noise when I take my foot off of the gas and it goes into like a decel. Like a rattle noise. I put it in neutral (automatic) and rev it and it does it on the decel not the accel side of revving. Popped the hood and revved it and it does it from what sounds like is coming from the back side of the engine under the intake manifold. Not quite like a rod rattle but close. Oil looks good but a couple of bubbles on the dip stick when I pulled it out. Any ideas guys?

dwbailey · #2 04-13-2009, 03:47 PM

Would a broken valve spring do that?

mightymoose_22 · #3 04-13-2009, 05:45 PM

Ok... so you did start a new thread... I got to this one last!

I would start with a compression check of each cylinder.
The car is old enough, if the head hasn't been serviced recently, it may be worth your while to just pull it off and have a valve job done. You could be in the early stages of disaster.

Also, you might try undoing one spark plug at a time... see if you can isolate which cylinder is making the noise. Careful not to zap yourself!

dwbailey · #4 04-14-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymoose_22

Ok... so you did start a new thread... I got to this one last!

I would start with a compression check of each cylinder.
The car is old enough, if the head hasn't been serviced recently, it may be worth your while to just pull it off and have a valve job done. You could be in the early stages of disaster.

Also, you might try undoing one spark plug at a time... see if you can isolate which cylinder is making the noise. Careful not to zap yourself!

Thanks for the suggestions.

I did start this thread but put some questions on some others that appeared to have the same problem in case those that fixed their problem would share what they did. My friend is coming over today to check it out with me. I took the valve cover off and there was a little rubber seal sorta looking thing laying in there and I have no idea where it came from. A prelim look doesn't show a broken spring or anything loose where that rubber seal would have come from. That part really has be puzzled.

dwbailey · #5 04-14-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymoose_22

Ok... so you did start a new thread... I got to this one last!

I would start with a compression check of each cylinder.
The car is old enough, if the head hasn't been serviced recently, it may be worth your while to just pull it off and have a valve job done. You could be in the early stages of disaster.

Also, you might try undoing one spark plug at a time... see if you can isolate which cylinder is making the noise. Careful not to zap yourself!

My car expert buddy came by this afternoon and listened to it and said it sounds like a broken flex plate in the tranny. Ever had anything like that happen to you?

AzTumbleweed · #6 04-14-2009, 06:30 PM

Why would it only make noise when you let off the gas? When you let off the gas your vacuum increases. I wonder if it's something vacuum controlled like an EGR valve?

dwbailey · #7 04-15-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTumbleweed

Why would it only make noise when you let off the gas? When you let off the gas your vacuum increases. I wonder if it's something vacuum controlled like an EGR valve?

Gonna take it to a tranny shop I use and have them verify if it is the flex plate whatever that is.

mightymoose_22 · #8 04-15-2009, 09:41 AM

Hmm... I don't think that will be your problem. Anything in that area that is broken would be making a hideous noise just about all the time, not just on deceleration.
You might do yourself a favor and at least do a compression check before you go pay a shop to do the same thing. If something comes up bad on a compression check you are going to have to remove the head. If the compression check comes out ok then you might want to have a tranny shop check things out.
I can't picture the rubber seal that you mentioned... but that being there makes me think that you are very close to your problem.

dwbailey · #9 04-15-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymoose_22

Hmm... I don't think that will be your problem. Anything in that area that is broken would be making a hideous noise just about all the time, not just on deceleration.
You might do yourself a favor and at least do a compression check before you go pay a shop to do the same thing. If something comes up bad on a compression check you are going to have to remove the head. If the compression check comes out ok then you might want to have a tranny shop check things out.
I can't picture the rubber seal that you mentioned... but that being there makes me think that you are very close to your problem.

Good point on the compression check. Will ask my friend if he can come back by with his guage. That sound is hideous that it is making. Worse than waht a rod about to snap would sound like. Its like you were sticking a screwdriver into the blades of a fan kinda sound.

The rubber thingy he said looked like something off the end of a funnel or something. Like somebody put oil in it and it fell off and they didn't go in after it. All of the rockers were good and the springs were good after an inspection there.

AzTumbleweed · #10 04-15-2009, 10:41 AM

Hmmm, sounds to loud for an EGR valve.

I wonder if the starter's gear is not retracting? Might be worth a look.

dwbailey · #11 04-15-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTumbleweed

Hmmm, sounds to loud for an EGR valve.

I wonder if the starter's gear is not retracting? Might be worth a look.

That might be worth a look see, too.

I ran the compression check idea by my mechanic friend and his comment after having done the head check yesterday said that a compression check probably wouldn't result in anything since it doesn't miss under a load, idles smooth and climbs hills with no problem. Gonna run it by 2 tranny shops at lunch and get 2 opinions. One of them said he's heard enough flex plate failures to know if the sound it is making would/could be that. My buddy also said that he has heard of the guts of a catalytic converter breaking apart and only making that kind of noise under decelleration. Hmmm.......

dwbailey · #12 04-15-2009, 01:57 PM

Well crap!

Took it to the 2 tranny shops and got 2 different stories. One said it was the flex plate and the other didn't agree after a close inspection. Got it up on the lift and the sound sounds like it is coming from right in the area of the starter.

What was also weird was that there were 2 shims where the starter bolts on. Is that normal? After looking thru the inspection holes around the flex plate and taking the starter off and looking in thru there, really couldn't result in the flex plate being the culprit. No nicks in the torque converter bolt heads and the starter face didn't look like it was being hit by anything. When we started it the flex plate sorta sucks in some towards the engine and stays there so assume that is normal. Still a little concerned about those shims and if that has anything to do with anything. Only like a quarter of the teeth on the starter gear is shiny where it is engaging the teeth on the flex plate. Normal? We finally wound up concluding that the noise is one they've never heard before and they suggested I drop the oil pan and do a look see there before we pull the tranny out to see if it is the flex plate making the noise as was stated by the other tranny shop. Any further suggestions with this info now available? Thanks guys.

mightymoose_22 · #13 04-15-2009, 06:56 PM

You can still do a compression check, just for the sake of doing it. Doesn't take long.

You might also just disconnect the cat from the exhaust manifold... or just disconnect the entire manifold, and see if the sound goes away. That would cost you a gasket.

You can also try and listen with a stethoscope and see if you can isolate it. Something that sounds like the starter might just be resonating through the intake manifold.

If after doing all this, and removing the oil pan... you are pretty much stuck in a position where you need to go ahead and pull that head off. Every time you run the engine you are probably causing more damage though.

AzTumbleweed · #14 04-16-2009, 09:34 AM

I'd think the shims are there because a previous owner had the same problem. I would start it up and then remove the starter with the engine running to see if the sound goes away.

dwbailey · #15 04-16-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTumbleweed

I'd think the shims are there because a previous owner had the same problem. I would start it up and then remove the starter with the engine running to see if the sound goes away.

Plan on doing that. Thanks for the idea. Are the shims not a stock item on the starters on these 1.9s?

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