Recommendations for head gaskets

[VentureDude]

I am fixing my van (146000kms and the head gasket was starting to fail) and am looking for some recommendations on the gasket set. I have sent the heads to a machine shop to be checked for cracks / warpage and to remove two exhaust studs that had snapped off all on their own.

From reading and searching I have found that there are 3 types of Fel-Pro gasket sets; PermaDry, PermaDry Plus and PermaTorque.

Can someone elaborate on the differences between these Fel-Pro sets?

Thank you kindly
Evan

[toni1595]

The head gasket kit that I bought had elements of each type within the box, according to the markings on the outside. I can't tell which is which though. I know that the lower intake gasket was different than the one I had put in before, this one has metal as a framework, the one I took off was all plastic. I can take a look and see what the part number was if you want, I can't tell you right off the top of my head.

Toni.

[534BC]

Same here. I got what was called "severe duty" head gaskets in the $145 kit. It contained metal intake gaskets unlike the plastic ones I used last time. I think they are called perma-tork head gaskets.

[VentureDude]

Thanks for the info. I went into the local parts dealer and realized the same thing in that the kit was a mixture of the different names( permadry/perma-torque). I ended purchasing a set with the metal frame intake and severe duty head gaskets.

I dropped by the machine shop and they showed me that 1 of the cylinder heads was cracked.

Do you guys think I could replace the 1 cylinder head with a remanufactured and be fine with the original remaining shaved head? Or should I go ahead and purchase 2 remanufactured heads?

[534BC]

You're probably fine with one rebuilt head and the original being redone by the shop. Hopefully they are surfaced relatively equal and the vlves/seats done about the same. If not it is no big deal on stock engine.

They may also fix the crack very easily by welding or other means.

[VentureDude]

One last question. Is there a top side for the head gaskets?

The reason I ask is there is a blue coating on 1 side of the head gasket.

Thanks again.

[toni1595]

I ended up checking which way the originals were installed. Turns out the blue marked side corresponds to the gasket being up against the head. The only difference that I could note was there is an extension of the metal rings around the piston holes against the head side.

I was told by the shop that checked my heads that the cracks weren't that big a deal between the valve seats anyway. I had 3 cracks between the 2 heads. all between the seats. They said that the Ford Escort valve seats would actually fall out if there was a crack around the seats.

[VentureDude]

Thanks for the insight. The crack in my head was in the spark plug hole extending to the exhaust valve on cylinder #1. The funny thing was when removing that head from the engine, one exhaust bolt had snapped off on its own at the #1 cylinder (found the broken stud with the nut in the radiator mount), the exhaust was leaking out the side of the engine for I don't knwo how long. I wonder if the heat of the exhaust helped crack the head.

Anyways thanks for the information on the head gasket. Looks like I am ready to start assembling. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Cheers,
Evan

[toni1595]

Yes I had 3 broken studs, 2 of them on 1 exhaust port. Evidently broke on their own. I'm surprised that it didn't make some noise. Came out pretty easily I thought. I have a suspicion that the aluminum moves around quite a bit. That's why there is a problem with the gaskets staying put. IMHO.

By the way, are you replacing your lower intake manifold bolts? I read a TSB that was issued in 4/08 by GM and it said to put new bolts in. I checked and my parts store would have to order them. Hols me up for another day or so that's all.

[534BC]

I noticed no difference in gaskets, I think I put the sticky side down? Coincedentally my number one cylinder is the one that had the leaking gasket AND the broken exhaust bolt.

If you can't get intake bolts then at least loctite them. My van just got home from vacation of 2000 miles, time to change the oil. I had already flushed/changed the anti-freeze.

Strange thing is now after the job , the overhead info center is real dim for night and day. It still changes when lights are on, but is hard to read at night and day.

[VentureDude]

I stripped one of the lower intake bolts. I have got a helicoil set and will give it a go. Just when I thought things were going well.

I found a copy of a bulletin with revised torquing procedures the final torque on the diaganol bolts being 18ft/lbs.

I reviewed the Haynes manual and it states it should be 115in/lbs (approx 9.5ft/lbs) for the final pass on the vertical bolts for 1997-2003 and 18ft/lb for 2004-2005.

Needless to say I followed the TSB rather than the Haynes manual and stripped one of the bolt holes .


Should be finished this weekend. I'll let you know if it runs.

[toni1595]

Venture Dude, so you did replace the LIM bolts then? I did and promptly stripped out one of mine. I went back to the parts store and they called the manufacturer and they insist they are the correct bolts. I guess GM made a change in 2000 to the longer diagonal bolts. I got my money back and used the old bolts and put loctite on the long ones, which is the only difference that I can see as they aren't torque to yield like the head bolts are. I don't see the advantage of changing the bolts other than the pre-loctite being applied.

The long bolts are the same length. It's the one of the short ones that I stripped out. They are at least 1/4" too short. And in an aluminum threaded hole, that's too short in my opinion. I really never even reached the 62 inch/lbs before the thread was giving way.Of course the thread may have been compromised prior to my taking it apart, I don't know for sure.

Toni.

[inafogg]

the reason they rec bolt replacement is because the bolts stretch!!the head gasket should read this end up some where on the gasket.Good Luck

[toni1595]

Yes I agree. The head bolts are torque to yield, but the I don't believe that the intake manifold bolts are. And there was definitely no markings on my head gaskets.....I just went according to the way they were installed originally from the factory. I even went to the Fel-Pro website and really couldn't find any help there either. Maybe it doesn't really matter that much either way?

Toni.

[VentureDude]

Toni,

I ordered the replacement bolts for the LIM. Like you the diaganol bolts were 1/4 inch shorter. I ended up using the originals after stripping out one hole. I compared the felpro head gasket to the original and made a best guess. (the blue side being toward the heads)

Everything is together, but I now have a leak at the fuel pressure regulator. Ill have to find some new seals for that.

Thanks