Starter won't stop

komputatek · #1 04-01-2009, 11:34 PM

I have a 1996 sunfire GT 2.4 With Automatic. I acquired this car non-running and have just finished a major overhaul on it. It runs good but..... On Random occasions, say every 20 starts, the starter will engage & the car might start, but the starter continues to crank! I can turn off the key and the engine will die, but it continues to crank. I have to disconnect the battery cable to make it stop. So far we have replaced the starter, both battery cables. I even cleaned the terminal on the "underhood" fuse box. HELP!

Airjer_ · #2 04-02-2009, 12:23 AM

When it happens, which will be the most inconvienint time, check the purple wire for power. If there is power on it than the starter will think the key is in the crank position and continue to run. I'm not positive but there may be a dealer added relay that helps prevent the burning up of the ignition switch. If there is than you should be able to find it buy tracing the purple wire to it. If there is one than you should be able to backprobe the wires and find out if the ignition switch is providing power wich would enable it or if it is just stuck in the closed position.

If there isn't a relay than the ignition switch might be the issue. You'll see a yellow wire coming out of it. The yellow wire is the one you'll want to check. It should only have power in the crank position.

Hope that helps.

komputatek · #3 04-02-2009, 11:41 AM

Thanks for the tip. I assume that you mean the purple wire connected to the starter solenoid? My next thought was to tear apart the ignition switch. I'll check for a relay.
Last time this happened I didn't have my battery bolt wrench with me and by the time I got a Cresent wrench to take the terminal off it had nearly melted the battery cables.

Airjer_ · #4 04-02-2009, 11:58 AM

Yup, purple wire to the starter solenoid.

brcidd · #5 04-02-2009, 01:37 PM

No relays in your starter circuit-- the wiring diagram shows that if that purple wire is hot- it is coming straight out of ignition switch- or is crossed at the starter solenoid....

If it does not stop with clutch released- (manual tranny) or you move it into Reverse (auto tranny) then it is not the igniiton switch- has to be at starter...

Airjer_ · #6 04-02-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brcidd

No relays in your starter circuit-- if that purple wire is hot- it is coming staright out of ignition switch- or is crossed at the starter solenoid....

Didn't GM retrofit a bunch of these because they where burning up the ignition switches?

ctwright · #7 04-02-2009, 07:38 PM

Problem is more than likely your ignition switch. Even if it was a relay in between, that would still not be causing any problems. If the relay is bad your contacts won't make a connection. The coil inside the relay turns into an electromagnet that pulls the contacts closed(for normally open contacts). A problem with a relay is normally one that doesn't make a connection when supposed to because the contacts are worn. Very unlikely for the a set of normally open contacts in a relay to become stuck closed, never seen it myself.

Now, on my buick regal I one day went to turn the car off, pulled the key all the way back, and the damn thing stayed on. I put the key back in, turned it, turned it back off, no change. I had to pull the ignition fuse to get the car off. To this day it's still messed up, the ignition switch. I have it bypassed with a cheap universal switch and a pushbutton start.

Airjer_ · #8 04-03-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctwright

Very unlikely for the a set of normally open contacts in a relay to become stuck closed, never seen it myself.

It happens more than you would think. Same with people actually fixing things that are broken instead of using band-aids.

ctwright · #9 04-03-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airjer_

It happens more than you would think. Same with people actually fixing things that are broken instead of using band-aids.

Well, I'm in the industrial maintenance field so I probably should have stated that before I work on more relays than probably anyone that has ever worked on a car. I still however did not say it was impossible I just said I have never seen one go bad like that from all of my experience troubleshooting and fixing industrial machinery where relays have gone bad and that the problem is more than likely in his ignition switch. And as far as band-aids, if it works like it is supposed to it is fixed. If you have only one ride back and forth to work and you don't have but 20 bucks on you will use what you have to. Actually I was even hotwiring the car for the first few days, now that's a band-aid. I did plan on eventually taking the universal(band-aid) off and putting in a factory ignition switch later on when I got the money but if it works it works. That band-aid has been working for over 2 years now. And I wasn't suggesting him do the same anyway.

komputatek · #10 04-03-2009, 09:39 AM

I have found & replaced the relay ($16.99 at Advance Auto). Mine is located on the radiator cross member and was a 10 minute job to replace. so far so good, but I haven't started it 20 times yet. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ilies/nono.gif Thanks again. It was all a big help.

Airjer_ · #11 04-03-2009, 09:48 AM

I Thought there might be a relay! Lets hope for the best.

brcidd · #12 04-03-2009, 11:03 AM

Does make you wonder-- I'm looking at the OEM GM service manuals for J-car- and there is not a relay in the circuit until late in the year in 2001 models- where it is then called a crank relay in the underhood fuse/relay center-- so unless I'm missing something- .....Can't imagine an OEM relay for the starter up by the radiator-- was this a TSB fix of some sort-- there is no mention of it when I do a TSB search....

Just trying to learn here- also my Mitchell -on- Demand schematics don't show one either back in '96

Airjer_ · #13 04-03-2009, 02:14 PM

Check recalls. I don't remember the specific years. When you see them you scratch your head because it does not look o.e! The wiring diagrams don't show it as well but its there. Sometimes they are attached to the upper radiator support and sometimes they are just hangin.

J-Ri · #14 04-03-2009, 03:58 PM

If it does do it again, connect a wire to the "S" terminal on the starter and run it to a small light that you can see from inside the car. That way you can see if it's the siwtch or the starter. Sorry to say, but I bet it will do it again. Every stuck closed relay I've seen stays stuck shut because the contacts weld themselves together, so not usually intermittent.

ctwright, your problem is not the ignition switch. There's a rack and pinion behind the lock cylinder that pushes the ignition switch. The rack is a very common break. It's a cheap part, I'd fix it so anyone couldn't just take the car.

manicmechanix · #15 04-03-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airjer_

Check recalls. I don't remember the specific years. When you see them you scratch your head because it does not look o.e! The wiring diagrams don't show it as well but its there. Sometimes they are attached to the upper radiator support and sometimes they are just hangin.

You are right about there being a recall to add a relay on 95-2000 (?) Cav and sunfires. For what it's worth I have seen relays and solenoids stick closed, sometimes permanently.

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