fusible link?

[spankthaspeedbump]

ok so my wife has a 97 lumina with a 3.1. so i drove it to work about two weeks back cuz my car was in the shop. i left the lights on and killed the battery, not totally dead just enough it wouldn't fire up. so i get off work and it's dark, calleed the yard crew for a jump, heres where it gets interesting. i have another car with the battery in the wheel well. so as i look under her hood at night with a weak flashlight i don't see the battery hiding under the windshield washer fluid res. so bein that i grew up in the country i Jumped it from the hot on the alterntor, and grounded it to the motor. it started up perfect and ran 63 miles home (i know a long haul for work)

it ran fine on the way home and for about 2 days after, then the wife drove it about thirty miles total and went to good ol wal mart. she said on the way here stereo witch is aftermarket started acting funny and the guages started to not work. she goes into the store, comes out and the car is dead and will not start, so i drag my but out of bed and put a new battery in it, figured it had a bad plate and wasn'y taking a charge as there was no "volts" or battery warning light, so i didn't figure it was the alternator.

again it ran for about two days then died on me, again radio started to act up and wouldn't start. but for me the volts light came on. ok good now i'm pretty sure it's the alternator cuz i already changed the battery. so i go to the junk yard and get a replacement. put it in, jump it form the battery to start it and it will run with the cables on it, but as soon as i take them off it will run for about 5 mins then die. put the cables on and jump it, runs fine, take them off it dies again. so i have the old alternator tested to see if it was bad to begin with. nope it's pushin 15 volts. so now i know that i have a charging problem. i called around did some reading and found out the car has a fuseable link between the starter and the alternator, and that when i jumped off the hot on the alternator it could have burnt it.

i also thought it might have been the voltage regulator, but it is internal on the alternator, so when i put the used one in, if that was the problem it should have solved it. so it shouldn't be that.

it was exlained to me the the hot or positive wire runs from the battery to the starter, then to the alternator, is this true. can you do that with DC power and have it run the other direction once the alternator stars to push power?

pretty much i have said everything i can that i have done. if it sounds like a "fusable link" issue to you lemme know. any other ideas lemme know. i hate this car and it seems to have the same feeling towards me.


Thanke you.
Sincerely,
Impala Racer

[jeffcoslacker]

I would bet that's it.

A jump start is WAY too much amps to push through a alternator's primary charge wire. I'm surprised you didn't see it blow.

I wouldn't do that again. You'll see that smoked link down at the starter end.

[jeffcoslacker]

It doesn't matter which way it's wired....power will go toward the biggest load. In this case it was pushing 250 amps or so from the alt terminal to the battery via the solenoid, and then in turn back to the starter motor while cranking.

Normally power would go to the solenoid through primary wiring, once engaged the battery shoots high amps through the battery cable directly to the starter windings.

You ran all that through the primary wiring, which, lucky for you, is fused.

[ctwright]

Not sure who told you this but the fusible link you are looking for is b/t your battery and alternator. Not your alternator and starter. And everyone is right on here you need to check the fusible link. It should be in a box somewhere in the engine compartment. They have clear lids on them so you can look down and see if they are blown.

[spankthaspeedbump]

Originally Posted by ctwright

Not sure who told you this but the fusible link you are looking for is b/t your battery and alternator. Not your alternator and starter. And everyone is right on here you need to check the fusible link. It should be in a box somewhere in the engine compartment. They have clear lids on them so you can look down and see if they are blown.

ok, so is this right? the fuseable link is between the battery and starter? i can't imagine it is. cuz like i said, i can put the cables on the battery and it will start, so if it's between the two... it shouldn't be able to get power to the starter.

when i use a multimeter and check the power at the alt hot post with the motor and key off... i get nothin. but i should. car off or not, correct?


i'm pretty car wise, i'm just tryin to make sure i'm not throwing parts at it. that tends to get expensive, and i refuse to go to ANY shop. i do ALL my own work.

i'm also curious about something else. the dealer cannot find the fuseable link. so it is probly discontinued. so if the link is between the starter and the alt. would i be able to buy some wire and a few eyelit conectors and bypass it??? i've done alot of car stereos, so i know wires, loads and what can handle what. but is my idea possible???


everyone has been a huge help and i really appreciate it.


Sincerely,
Impala Racer

[ctwright]

Originally Posted by spankthaspeedbump

ok, so is this right? the fuseable link is between the battery and starter? i can't imagine it is. cuz like i said, i can put the cables on the battery and it will start, so if it's between the two... it shouldn't be able to get power to the starter.

when i use a multimeter and check the power at the alt hot post with the motor and key off... i get nothin. but i should. car off or not, correct?


i'm pretty car wise, i'm just tryin to make sure i'm not throwing parts at it. that tends to get expensive, and i refuse to go to ANY shop. i do ALL my own work.

i'm also curious about something else. the dealer cannot find the fuseable link. so it is probly discontinued. so if the link is between the starter and the alt. would i be able to buy some wire and a few eyelit conectors and bypass it??? i've done alot of car stereos, so i know wires, loads and what can handle what. but is my idea possible???


everyone has been a huge help and i really appreciate it.


Sincerely,
Impala Racer

I didn't say it was b/t your battery and starter, you said it was b/t the alternator and starter, I told you it was b/t your ALTERNATOR & BATTERY.

That is why you can hook up cables to your battery and jump the vehicle off, but the reason it dies is b/c you have an open circuit b/t your battery and alternator. You blew the link when you tried jumping it from the post on the alternator.

[jeffcoslacker]

That may be right....I was thinking of the first gen (the ones I worked on the most) the link between the alternator and battery was at the primary post on the starter...

This post was kind of a "supply point" for primary power to the rest of the vehicle. A common error when changing a starter was to accidentally leave off the lug for the fusible wire going to the alternator, and they wouldn't charge after starter was replaced.

ct is right though, I suspect...yours should have a power distribution box over the driver's side wheelwell that has all the main power big amp fuses and connection (as well as your positive jump start terminal, BTW)...the link (or maxfuse) is probably there. That's where all the primary power spiders out from on this generation.

Sorry for the misdirection...not thinking clearly. Luckily electrics haven't been an issue I've had to fool with much on this car.

[ctwright]

Originally Posted by jeffcoslacker

That may be right....I was thinking of the first gen (the ones I worked on the most) the link between the alternator and battery was at the primary post on the starter...

This post was kind of a "supply point" for primary power to the rest of the vehicle. A common error when changing a starter was to accidentally leave off the lug for the fusible wire going to the alternator, and they wouldn't charge after starter was replaced.

ct is right though, I suspect...yours should have a power distribution box over the driver's side wheelwell that has all the main power big amp fuses and connection (as well as your positive jump start terminal, BTW)...the link (or maxfuse) is probably there. That's where all the primary power spiders out from on this generation.

Sorry for the misdirection...not thinking clearly. Luckily electrics haven't been an issue I've had to fool with much on this car.

May not have been misdirection, I just wanted to correct him where he said that I said it was between the battery and starter because I didn't say that.

And if it is like you say I would still call it between the alternator and battery cause that's all that matters as far as that goes, if it comes from the hot post on the starter solenoid(I haven't worked on one like that though but you may be right) instead of having one wire going to the starter solenoid from the battery and another separate one going to the alternator from the battery oh well who cares, all he has to do is trace the the wire from the alternator and he should find where the fusible link is located at.

[spankthaspeedbump]

the alt hot wire is built into the wiring harness. so i'd rather not have to tear that whole deal apart for one issue, i do however remember having to pull a little fuse box looking deal above the washer fluid res off when i changed the battery. i'll get under the hood this weekend and see what i find. i can always use the multimeter to figure out what wires go to what as well i guess.

any thoughts on the bypass idea if it isn't just a replaceable fuse?




Sincerely,
Impala Racer

[jeffcoslacker]

There is probably only one wire of that color and gauge that's going to come out near the power distribution box.

Yes that's the box I'm talking about...it hangs in the way when you are changing the battery, and usually has to be moved or else it gets broken. The post with the jump start terminal right next to it is the common point for several primary wires...see if one of them is it. I'll look on mine later when the sun comes up and see if I can spot it.

I might run a bypass as a last ditch measure, but realize you will have no overload protection...if you're wrong, something is gonna go zorch. You might want to run an inline fuse or use standard fusible link wire of the correct overload rating. You could run from the charge post to that jump start lug, that would be the most convenient point, so you don't have to try to access the battery directly, which I'm sure you know is a PITA.

[spankthaspeedbump]

yeah i don't get to sleep tonight after work, get to drop the kid off with a sitter, then go work on the wifes car while she is sleeping soundly for work. so not fair lol.

but yeah i'll look around in that box. see what i find. it's not gunna be a replaceable fuse is it? cuz if thats it then that will leave me time to work on my car. YAY! and i hope we all are talking about the lumina sedan.... not the van. i don't know why they made two vehicles with the same dam name, how stupid.

but yeah if i run into any trouble i'll get back on here and post. i've got today and tommorrow off. so i have to get it done this weekend. so chack back if possible and see if i'm lost.


thanks again for all the help everyone. it's greatly greatly appreciated.


Sincerely,
Impala Racer

[spankthaspeedbump]

ok guys got under the hood this morning... here is what i found.

ok so i checked the little black box on top of the washer fluid res. no blown fuse. then i looked down by the starter, yup sure enough i see a fuseable link wire burnt in half, and again this is where it gets interesting...

ok so on the hot post for the starter, there are three wires coming off of it, one is about an eight gauge wire, red, assuming that comes straight from the battery, from what it looks like. then there are two orange wires that kinda go into a single eyelit rubber boot deal, hope your stayin with me here. one of the orange wires is what is burnt in half.


ok so now that we have it figured out.... WHAT DO I ASK THE DEALERSHIP FOR? A name, something... i took a couple quick pics with my phone to show, hipefully that will help. gunna head into town now and see what i find out. i'll continue to check back so post if you have any ideas.

thank you.
Sincerely,
Impala Racer

[jeffcoslacker]

Don't go to a dealer...just go to a regular parts store.

Cut off the affected portion of the harness, and just show it to them. Tell them you want the correct gauge fusible link wire (sold in precut lengths) and hardware to rebuild it.

That's how we do it...it's not necessary to replace the entire leg of the harness...just replace the damaged portion. Doesn't have to look exactly the same, as long as electrically it does the same job...

Interesting that the newer generation is still as I remembered the first ones...I figured after ct jogged my memory about where the primary power bus is now, they would have put the links up in that area...

Feel the other wires for soft spots and check for darkened areas near the ends...sometimes links can burn internally but not be real obvious on casual inspection...that's why I'd cut the whole thing off and rebuild with new links...

[jeffcoslacker]

PS make sure you disconnect the battery while doing this...or you may have another "event" on your hands

[ctwright]

I just wanted to say my bad, I figured it being a 97 model it wouldn't have the wire type fusible links in it. I know most vehicles started doing away with those and started using the box type with the clear lid on them. But yes, he is right you can just go to an autoparts store, they should already have some pre-made I think he said something about making them or something. I've had to get some for a dodge before they had them on the electrical section I think at autozone, different guages and lengths.