no start: starter or battery?

[sbbob]

Hi everyone,

We've got a 1992 Grand Prix, 3.1 L V6, with about 120K miles. It won't start, and I'm trying to figure out if the battery or the starter motor is the culprit.

8 pm Friday night, I started it and it turned over lazily but the motor started. I figured, the battery must have been weak, and a short drive would allow it to regain some charge.

9:45 Friday night, I tried to start it, but the starter did not turn over, although I heard a click-click-click-click noise while turning the key. Fwiw, the dashboard lights came on at this try.

3:00 Saturday afternoon, I returned and the battery was fully drained. Remote entry did not work, and no dashboard lights came on with the key in the ignition. No click-click or anything when turning the key.

I tried jumping from our other car - the connection got the dashboard lights running, but the starter motor did nothing: no click-click-click even.

I left the jumper cables connected for about ten minutes with the Honda's motor running, but the starter continued not to respond in anyway. I disconnected the cables, and the dashboard lights stayed on for the moment. I then went to clean the positive terminal (the only one accessible) but this had no effect. Eventually the juice ran out and the dashboard lights stopped working again. And so the Pontiac sits.

Complicating this is the fact that the terminal I use for jumpstarting is actually an auxiliary: the battery itself is nestled below the wiper fluid tank, and changing it requires removing a brace and some other things. So I suppose it's possible that the jumpstart was only accessing the aux and not the battery, but I have no idea why the jump wasn't affecting the starter (I've successfully jumped it in the past, when I left the interior light on by mistake).

Also note that sure the car had not been driven for a week, but that's true every week - I only use it Fridays. So the time off shouldn't be understood as the reason for the battery's drainage.

The diagnosis is important to me because I can have the starter replaced under warranty from the dealership, but would take it to my trusty mechanic if the battery were the issue.

I appreciate any advice here in figuring out what the problem is.

Thanks!
Bob

[ctwright]

The battery terminals(actual terminals) are probably loose, or maybe a bad battery. You need to take all that stuff apart and check it out.

[CL8]

I would take it to the dealership and have them check the starter to make`sure it's not defective. I don't think they would charge you for looking at it if it's under warranty.

[ctwright]

Originally Posted by CL8

I would take it to the dealership and have them check the starter to make`sure it's not defective. I don't think they would charge you for looking at it if it's under warranty.

92 model, I seriously doubt it's under warranty. I believe people come on here to avoid going to the dealership.

[sbbob]

Originally Posted by ctwright

92 model, I seriously doubt it's under warranty. I believe people come on here to avoid going to the dealership.

The starter motor is 2 years old and is under warranty from the dealership. I just trying to avoid the dealership if the issue is really the battery.

[ctwright]

My bad looks like I stuck my foot in my mouth. My apologies to the other guy I replied to. I read your original post again I didn't catch that the first time. It still sounds more like a battery problem though. From what you are describing it's not holding charge.

[sbbob]

Thanks for the tips so far. I think my main question in a nutshell is whether a bad starter motor would go click-click or whether that means it's not getting enough voltage.

I think I'll go back and lift up the fluid tank, and look into the cables that connect directly to the battery.

[doctorhrdware]

I would bet that the battery has a bad cell. Mine did the same last night. I went out today and would not start. It would just click. Even tried to charge the battery and would not hold the charge. So I am stranded. I guess I could call a taxi tomorrow and get a battery. I have no choice but to go to auto zone and get a Durlast gold battery. That is the closest place to my house. :ang ryfire

[sbbob]

OK, problem resolved; thanks again everyone. Dr. Hrdware, I hope it works out for you.

Good news bad news. Good news is, it was just the battery, and I finally got the jump to work. Bad news, I wrecked a ratchet-screwdriver and tweaked my elbow trying to loosen one of the bolts that holds the chassis brace over the wiper fluid tank.

I decided to try to get at the battery proper and clean the true positive terminal but never got to it - turns out that the terminals are accessible if you remove the air filter housing; you can leave the fluid tank alone and still get at the posts. But I didn't have the wherewithal to remove the airfilter housing.

After fiddling with all these other things I decided to give it a rest after one last jumpstart attempt. Again the cables had little effect, but I stubbornly kept adjusting each connection - fwiw the other car's positive terminal is kind of chewed up, so it took several attempts to get a solid connection. Once the connection was live, the GP's dashboard lights were pretty bright, and the starter worked pretty eagerly. I let it run for half an hour and got it home.

Also, I did a noob thing and actually left the interior lights on last night, which is why it was completely dead this afternoon and wasn't even clicking. I think the battery was weak to begin with and died with the lights being left on.

Jury's still out on whether the battery's done. To be honest I drive this car for about 15 minutes per week (to the rink and back); we use the other car to commute. But I have been setting its alarm (Viper) ... I wonder if the 15 minutes of drive time is not enough to replenish the battery's charge after the alarm runs it down each week.

[ctwright]

Before you take the car anywhere else, remove the two caps on top of the battery. You should have 3 holes in each one. If the fluid looks low in any of them add water, might save you from having to get a battery.

[sbbob]

Originally Posted by ctwright

Before you take the car anywhere else, remove the two caps on top of the battery. You should have 3 holes in each one. If the fluid looks low in any of them add water, might save you from having to get a battery.

Thanks ct, I'll try to take a look if I can find my other ratchet and finally remove that chassis brace. btw the battery seems to sit sideways ... at least, the posts are on the side rather than the top. So I guess I'd have to pull the whole thing out and set it upright to check the fluid level.

[ctwright]

No, you won't have to do that, it's just what they call a side-post battery, the caps are still going to be on top.

[doctorhrdware]

I got my breaker bar out and got the brace off. Lost on of the bolts but that is no big deal. Got a lift to Kmart/Sears and the book for that batteries was wrong. I am going to Auto Zone in the morning via taxi and get a battery there. Much cheaper then Kmart/Sears by $50. That really pissed me off. All well doo doo happens. It is suppose to snow tonight, starting after midnight. We will see it that happens. Out west got slammed blizzards, snow all the way down to Texas.

[tblake]

Originally Posted by doctorhrdware

I got my breaker bar out and got the brace off. Lost on of the bolts but that is no big deal. Got a lift to Kmart/Sears and the book for that batteries was wrong. I am going to Auto Zone in the morning via taxi and get a battery there. Much cheaper then Kmart/Sears by $50. That really pissed me off. All well doo doo happens. It is suppose to snow tonight, starting after midnight. We will see it that happens. Out west got slammed blizzards, snow all the way down to Texas.

Yeah, I heard about that snow. It was supposed to hit the midwest too. I think I was really lucky. It seemed to completly miss central/southern MN. It wrapped around us, but completly missed us. I was so happy to wake up and find only a light dusting of snow on my car.

Any luck with the battery?

My friend is in the same predicament. His car only starts and runs with a jump start. The losers at tires plus left his dome light on one day and the next day wind chills were -30 below. I think his battery got dischared and froze.

[doctorhrdware]

We are all done returned the battery to Kfart/Snears got my money back. Surprising I actually got cash back. I found a connector that is on the left side of the battery. It is a 4 pin male connector that only has 2 pins used. What is/was the connector for. Got a 1000 amp battery with 800 CCA. It has a 3 year unlimited warranty and jump start. I saved $50 dollars on the battery that I got from Autozone. All is well. Just a pain to wiggle that battery in. Clean the battery cables before putting in, and also on the fuse box in the engine compartment. I should be good to go hopefully for another 10 years. So I can't complain. I had an energizer battery.