96' lumina sedan,3.1

[bigshotbill]

hi there,my car starts and runs for a few seconds then quits..trouble codes are ;p0102-maf,which i put a used 1 on...p0171-fuel system too lean,bank 1...p0300engine misfire detected, i replaced,wires/plugs...p1406,egr pintle positon,circut problem...i r/r the egr,cleaned it,new pcv valve..disconnected battery for about 1 minute...the car has been problamatic for a few months..initial start up it would lope,or sounded as if it wasn't getting gas/air and sometime would sputter when trying to apply gas...once car was warm,it ran fine,sometimes the next day it would start and run fine...now the car just starts and runs for a few seconds and quits...i have been reading the other postings too,but still no good,up until now the car ran so good it put me to sleep..thanks.

[jeffcoslacker]

Take the EGR off and verify that it is seated shut and sealed (spray some cleaner on the pintle and make sure it doesn't disappear instantly), then reinstall but don't hook it up, see if it'll start...it's gonna code for EGR but should start if it's getting hung open on startup.

I think it does a self-test on startup that cycles the valve to check for problems. If it's getting stuck open, it could act like this. What happens if you try to start with partial throttle applied? That would overcome the problem if it was related to a vacuum leak or bad cold idle setup. Ususally if the EGR or IACV are sticking, they will start fine like this, just won't idle when you release the throttle.

No telling though...a bad MAF will act like this too. But won't start w/throttle applied.

[bigshotbill]

i also cleaned the tps,it was carboned up...nothing has changed..i am currently looking to se if i have 2 crankshaft position sensors..some of the other postings said to change them...i am kind of lost here..

[bigshotbill]

i just went out to try and start it today...it fired up the first time,ran for a few seconds and quit..it did that for about 4-5 times,so i tried it again and it fired ,i pumped the pedal it quit,then after that it would crank,but thats all...i waited for a while,tried it again,it seems like it wants to go but not getting fuel,i can hear the fuel pump,but the very first 2 times i cranked it...i didn't hear the fuel pump,or maybe the noise around me was too loud...it starts,runs nice for a few seconds then quits...thank you

[manicmechanix]

Originally Posted by bigshotbill

i just went out to try and start it today...it fired up the first time,ran for a few seconds and quit..it did that for about 4-5 times,so i tried it again and it fired ,i pumped the pedal it quit,then after that it would crank,but thats all...i waited for a while,tried it again,it seems like it wants to go but not getting fuel,i can hear the fuel pump,but the very first 2 times i cranked it...i didn't hear the fuel pump,or maybe the noise around me was too loud...it starts,runs nice for a few seconds then quits...thank you

Ok do you have a scanner? Make sure you're not getting a code like p0101 MAF, P0123 TPS clear flood mode or p1374 ignition reference or such. Check MAP sensor or just unplug it and see if it starts (if it does replace MAP sensor with new one of course). Next check fuel pressure. Next you would unplug the main injector connector check with test lamp connected +B voltage to the PCM side to see if the PCM is grounding the injector on and off. check for spark at the plugs.

[bigshotbill]

no i dont have a scanner...a shop told me what the 4 codes were ; p0102-p0171-p0300-p1406...the car has about 110,000,miles,we bought it second hand 9 years ago,maybe...it never had much of any problems until now..i am assuming all the sensors are original,but not sure.the car has been real dependable...thanks..

[manicmechanix]

OK I see. Well without a scanner you can still listen for the fuel pump to come on. Unplug MAP and see if it starts. Check for spark. and a test light doesn't cost much so you could check that the computer is grounding the injectors. And a voltmeter would check the injector resistance at the main connector (it's unlikely that there's a problem there but it happens). You'll probably need a fuel pressure gauge too. You can rent these from auto parts stores. I forgot to mention, your codes seem to add up to a big air leak. So you might want to check for a vacuum leak if you haven't already. This sounds like a lot of steps but you might find the problem right away when you check the fuel pump for instance.

[bigshotbill]

i am on ssi,i dont have al that kind of money to experiment...idid notice today i went to start it..but could not hear the pump until after i fired it up..then you could distinctly hear it..the first i fired it up today,i turned the key on and off 4 times,then cranked it,it ran the longest today...and then quit again...i guess i will try to see if i have towing coverage and see if the guy wants to work on it,i will see if my friend has a pressure gauge...my friends are not really there for me..i appreciate all the offerings...i am not sure what i'm going to do yet.good luck to everybody

[bigshotbill]

i rented the fuel regulator gauge and i am getting almost 8 pounds pressure..and thats it..i bled some gas off to see if it was working...but there is gas that shoots out the fuel pressure test port,it seemed kinda strong for and instant...i am going back to buy a new fuel filter,but the one on there is only a couple years old,i put under 5,000 miles on per year,so i am thinking it's still good...i am thinking it's a fuel pump,when i first go out and try to start it...you can hardly hear the pump,but after about 5-6 times then it gets louder...the car still does the same thing..it runs for a few seconds,then quits..!..i have no idea when the pump was changed,probably never...do you fellas think it sounds like the next move after the filter???..get back to me thanks..thanks for telling about the rental..it's a free rental with deposit..!

[bigshotbill]

i used the bleed line form the fuel pressure regulator to feed the butterfly valve and i got the car to run and accelerate..i took it for a ride it ran fine..brought it back home shut it off so i could put the regulator back on and retest itbut it wouldn't start again..i am getting 8 pounds pressure,the fuel filter was changed a couple years ago and i put under 5,000 per year,i ahve never run it below 1/2 tank....and i see wher they sell u just the pump,i thought the whole thing came with it...i was going to put anew f.filter on then go to the pump...i don't know whats up..anybody else?

[manicmechanix]

Originally Posted by bigshotbill

i used the bleed line form the fuel pressure regulator to feed the butterfly valve and i got the car to run and accelerate..i took it for a ride it ran fine..brought it back home shut it off so i could put the regulator back on and retest itbut it wouldn't start again..i am getting 8 pounds pressure,the fuel filter was changed a couple years ago and i put under 5,000 per year,i ahve never run it below 1/2 tank....and i see wher they sell u just the pump,i thought the whole thing came with it...i was going to put anew f.filter on then go to the pump...i don't know whats up..anybody else?

I'm not sure what you mean by using the bleed line from the fuel pressure regulator? You did mean pressure regulator and not the pressure gauge tool right? Do you mean that vacuum hose that goes from the regulator to the manifold, or did you unhook the regulator return line and feed return fuel into the throttle body? There should no fuel in the vacuum line.

8psi is definitely low. Good work on renting the fuel pressure gauge, hopefully it's not way off. Maybe you can switch out the rental if they have a different one?

I would suggest before going through the trouble and expensive of putting a new fuel pump on make sure it's bad first. Your next step if you still have the pressure gauge is to pinch off the regualtor return line hose and see if you get normal pressure. If so, replace regulator. If not, disconnect the fuel pump relay and with a jumper wire from +Battery to fuel pump feed circuit-this is the termianl under the relay that would correspond to the arrow switch symbol. See if the pump comes on. You really need a test light to go further. They don't cost much and probably can be rented.

[bigshotbill]

i went ahead and took a chance on the fuel pump and that was the problem...i replaced -pump-tank-filter...i bought the cheap tank...but i wiped it down real good with laquer thinner and then steel wooled it...primed it...and used about 4 cans of spray bomb on it...that should keep it until i get rid of it..!..thanks for help everybody..i guess i'll be back when i need help again...thank you

[manicmechanix]

Hey thanks for getting back and letting us know about the fix. Most of the time on here you spend your time helping someone with a car problem, and they probably fix it and don't even come back and let you know.

It sounded like the fuel pump all along, but sometimes it can be the relay or the pressure regulator, and replacing the pump turns out to be a waste. I was just trying to tell you how to make sure it was the pump first. Luckily it turned out to be the pump and the first thing you replaced.

[bigshotbill]

many thanx to all and i didn't know you could get the use of a fuel pressure regulator...that helped alot...the gas tank looked salvagable,but then i remembered that it's under about 50 pounds pressure,so it might not hold up under that kind of pressure,so i bought the new one..i think the old tech vehicles had about 10/15 pounds pressure,which wasn't too stressful on the tank...ya the car fires right up,like it always has...it seems to be a bit more powerful,more responsive...sometimes the pump would run,sometimes it wouldn't...i didn't test the relays,but i had 2 of them and switched them around...all of this is ironis too,because back on dec 28...i lost or had stolen my life savings of 22,000 in cash...i kept in cash because of personal reasons...but now it's gone and it made buying parts very difficult..oh well life stinks then your car breaks down....!..good luck to everybody

[manicmechanix]

Originally Posted by bigshotbill

many thanx to all and i didn't know you could get the use of a fuel pressure regulator...that helped alot...

You mean you didn't think you could rent a fuel presure gauge tester, right ?

the gas tank looked salvagable,but then i remembered that it's under about 50 pounds pressure,so it might not hold up under that kind of pressure,so i bought the new one..i think the old tech vehicles had about 10/15 pounds pressure,which wasn't too stressful on the tank.

You bought a brand new gas tank or do you mean to say just a new fuel pump? The tank is not being pressured by the pump, just the lines and everything forward of the lines up to the regulator. There's really no more pressure in the gas tank than there was before.

Well looks like the fuel pump was the fix, so that's good.

all of this is ironis too,because back on dec 28...i lost or had stolen my life savings of 22,000 in cash...i kept in cash because of personal reasons...but now it's gone and it made buying parts very difficult..oh well life stinks then your car breaks down....!..good luck to everybody

I'd hate to have my money stolen, especially in this bad economy. Not trying to get into your business or anything but maybe if say you're trying to "hide" some cash away, maybe if you could keep it in the name of a very trusted person who can hold it in a bank account or deposit box for you where it'd be insured. Just a thought but you'd really have to be able to trust the person of course. Goodluck to you as well.