Unusual metallic sound many are stumped

[allegoric]

I have a 95 SW2 Automatic with 117K and it is making a sound as if the fan blade was touching the radiator, only when turning right, applying brakes doesn't change it, neither shifting to neutral, I've replaced the starter, torque axis motor mount and the drivers' cv joint, my mechanic has even given up, any bright minds out there want to take a shot and end my frustration?

[RC1488]

Originally Posted by abba2

I have a 95 SW2 Automatic with 117K and it is making a sound as if the fan blade was touching the radiator, only when turning right, applying brakes doesn't change it, neither shifting to neutral, I've replaced the starter, torque axis motor mount and the drivers' cv joint, my mechanic has even given up, any bright minds out there want to take a shot and end my frustration?

First guess: Your brake hose is rubbing the inside of the tire. Re route the hose going towards the strut.

Does make the noise when you are not moving with the wheel turned right?

[allegoric]

Update!!!, It makes the sound sitting in the driveway now, coming from center of engine around the starter, could the starter be wrong/touching the flywheel, sure sounds exactly like that, just can't figure out how or why? Thinking about changing starters? Shimming the bolts?

[denisond3]

The 'bendix' gear in your starter is pulled into contact with the toothed ring by the solenoid, and pushed-back by a spring inside the starter; either inside the solenoid, or on the bendix assembly itself. If that spring were to break.....it could make a noise. Also, assuming your car has an automatic tranny - I would check that all of the bolts/nuts holding the torque converter to the flex plate are snug.
I hope you find out what it is, and feedback the info.

[allegoric]

Had a mechanic put a stethescope on it, he says the transmission has an issue deep inside, guess I am finished.

[Cat Fuzz]

Originally Posted by abba2

Had a mechanic put a stethescope on it, he says the transmission has an issue deep inside, guess I am finished.

get.a.second.opinion.

[RC1488]

Check your DIfferential pin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gqhGC5vKDY

You do NOT want this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2us1JT_vRY

[allegoric]

Originally Posted by denisond3

The 'bendix' gear in your starter is pulled into contact with the toothed ring by the solenoid, and pushed-back by a spring inside the starter; either inside the solenoid, or on the bendix assembly itself. If that spring were to break.....it could make a noise. Also, assuming your car has an automatic tranny - I would check that all of the bolts/nuts holding the torque converter to the flex plate are snug.
I hope you find out what it is, and feedback the info.

What do you have to tear apart to check the flex plate, how many hours etc?

[denisond3]

To check if the nuts holding the torque converter to the flex plate are snug, you remove an access plate. Im not sure if you would need to drop the exhaust pipe to be able to reach in there. Then you can see the flex plate (has the start-ring teeth on it). By turning the engine with a screwdriver against the start-ring teeth, you will see the nuts or bolts to the torque converter rotate by. Just make sure they arent loose. You would also be able to see if there was any metal chunks in there between the flex plate and the engine block - like one of the small bolts that holds the aluminum casting for the rear main seal.
Using a stethoscope I dont know how anyone would be able to tell if the noise was coming from inside the tranny, or inside the bell housing. I find the major benefit of using a stethoscope depends on knowing what the sound should be when there is nothing wrong.
You might want to pull the starter out, and check that it works normally, when connected and 'engaged', while sitting on the bench.
If the differential pin has come 'out' and gouged a hole in the bell housing, you wouldnt really be able to see that with the tranny bolted to the engine - but there would be a BIG leak of ATF from the drain in the bell housing, with the engine running. And it would consume a lot of ATF too.
In order to check whether the differential pin has come 'out', you can unplug the vehicle speed sensor, and look down into the differential chamber (maybe using a mirror from below). There are old threads having to do with the 'differential pin' problem in Saturns. (Also related to prior owners having spun the front wheels much).

[RC1488]

Originally Posted by denisond3

To check if the nuts holding the torque converter to the flex plate are snug, you remove an access plate. Im not sure if you would need to drop the exhaust pipe to be able to reach in there. Yes you will have to

If the differential pin has come 'out' and gouged a hole in the bell housing, you wouldnt really be able to see that with the tranny bolted to the engine
You can see if the pin has shifted by looking through the VSS. It should be flush
- but there would be a BIG leak of ATF from the drain in the bell housing, with the engine running. Not totally true. It has happened that the pin scraps inside the housing of the differential with out putting a hole in it

OP: Re read your thread. If your car is sitting still the differential isn't moving and thus you should hear no noise if the pin is loose.

[allegoric]

Originally Posted by denisond3

To check if the nuts holding the torque converter to the flex plate are snug, you remove an access plate. Im not sure if you would need to drop the exhaust pipe to be able to reach in there. Then you can see the flex plate (has the start-ring teeth on it). By turning the engine with a screwdriver against the start-ring teeth, you will see the nuts or bolts to the torque converter rotate by. Just make sure they arent loose. You would also be able to see if there was any metal chunks in there between the flex plate and the engine block - like one of the small bolts that holds the aluminum casting for the rear main seal.
Using a stethoscope I dont know how anyone would be able to tell if the noise was coming from inside the tranny, or inside the bell housing. I find the major benefit of using a stethoscope depends on knowing what the sound should be when there is nothing wrong.
You might want to pull the starter out, and check that it works normally, when connected and 'engaged', while sitting on the bench.
If the differential pin has come 'out' and gouged a hole in the bell housing, you wouldnt really be able to see that with the tranny bolted to the engine - but there would be a BIG leak of ATF from the drain in the bell housing, with the engine running. And it would consume a lot of ATF too.
In order to check whether the differential pin has come 'out', you can unplug the vehicle speed sensor, and look down into the differential chamber (maybe using a mirror from below). There are old threads having to do with the 'differential pin' problem in Saturns. (Also related to prior owners having spun the front wheels much).

I like this idea, one question is there a cutaway of what you're talking about somewhere, the access plate I mean, I don't know what I'm looking at down under.

[RC1488]

Originally Posted by allegoric

I like this idea, one question is there a cutaway of what you're talking about somewhere, the access plate I mean, I don't know what I'm looking at down under.

I dont have one personally. Some one else may. Its a piece of metal shaped like a half circle. If you follow the boundry where the tranny meets the engine, youll see on the bottom of the tranny where the housing stops and this metal plate starts. Its held on with 8mm bolts IIRC.

[delicatedelinquent]

What are the safety issues with the Diff pin bad? What would happen on the road and is there any way to test this?

[denisond3]

If you drive in a normal manner, the differential pin wont be a problem. What happens with Saturn SL series trannys is; Someone has spun the wheels on dry pavement, just to see if they can do it. A very small amount of this type of abuse, and the 'lockpin' inside the differential that keeps the 'pin' in place (on which the differential gears turn) will break. Then the differential 'pin' can migrate, is able to move. Due to the centrifugal force as the differential is spinning, it will soon cause the differential pin to move outward, and the end of that pin will begin to rub against the inside of the case of the tranny, in the area of the differential.
If you, or a previous owner, have bothered to spin the front wheels (revving the motor to 4000 and pulling it into gear), then that diff. pin may come loose. There isnt any way to fix the condition without tranny removal/rebuilding. Be sure to have a look at the video posted above.
I have a tranny that happened to. There was a hole goudged into the bell housing. The tranny worked fine, shifted quietly -- but took about two quarts of ATF each time you wanted to drive it anywhere. I got a Saturn SL2 tranny from a junkyard for $200 and swapped it in. I have no idea if the pin made a noise as it goudge the hole in the side of the case.