Sometimes it pays to bring it to a tech

[UKtech]

Thought i'd just give you guys an example of what it is like for me as an auto tech and just a small example of how some people get in over their heads........

This paticular example started with a phone call two weeks ago and went something like this, i don't normally handle the phones but this guy had asked to speak to me.....

Customer - A friend said you really helped him out and i was wondering if you could help me.

Me - Ok ? sure i'll try

Customer - My 2003 GTP won't start , whats wrong?

Me - Best to get it towed in and i'll let you know.

Customer - hmmm no ,shops are too expensive i'm going to fix it myself i just need to know what to fix.

Me - ok , it needs diagnosis, not guess work i'm afraid.

Customer - Well your not much help are you! so it could be a starter right?

Me - Possible.

Customer - Click!

Today the GTP comes in on a hook (two weeks after that initial call) , he tells me he cannot get it going and practiaclly everyone on the street had looked at it including a so called friend of his that works at a well known N.American chain of autoshops (i'm not going to name them).


He,and most of the neighbourhood have replaced so far ......

Starter motor (to cure the original no start condition) now the the GTP turns over and is popping up through the intake and occasionally backfiring

Which led to him and most of the neighbourhood replacing -

Crank sensor
Plugs and wires
Coils and module
UIM & LIM Gaskets
Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter
Lifters
Head Gaskets
MAF
MAP
EGR
PCM (Salvaged)
TPS
and I counted 8 cans of easy start and 3 empty bottles of Fuel injection cleaner on the passenger floor.

His wife was also there took me too one side and explained that he was a proud man and it took alot of arguing and pleading on her part to get the car down here and she admitted they had spent well over $3500 to get to this point

............ 30 minutes later (.5hr labour) i'd discovered the problem .

The rebuilt started they'd installed to cure the original no start problem had been wired up internally backwards. It was turning the engine over backwards.

Make of this what you will. But sometimes a little bit of knowledge is dangerous and VERY expensive.

[richtazz]

hmmm.... not to sound like a jerk, but this scenario is not possible. The starter drive clutch will only engage in one direction, it will free-spin in reverse. If the starter were in fact internally reversed, it might free spin but it would not be able to crank the engine over.

[BNaylor]

Ha! Ha! This one is interesting. Man, thats crazy.

I tend agree with Rich on the way it is supposed to work but I guess anything can happen depending on how bad the starter was screwed up during rebuild. Was this a reman/rebuild starter or new Delco/Delphi? To do this the starter would have to have reversed polarity internally but the starter solenoid wired correctly or working properly causing the pinion gear to thrust out to and engage the flywheel.

Easy way to tell is to look at the direction of the front end of the crankshaft to see if it is turning in the proper direction while cranking.

[UKtech]

Thats exactly how I noticed it bob , the crank rotation. I spoke to the rebuilder at the customers request and explained the problem,the impression i got after speaking with them apart from having a hard job understanding them(indian i think) is they had no clue what they were talking about.
It was an incorrectly assembled motor,magnet orientation is the only explanation i can think of. But i advised the customer to at least try and get some compensation. I guess the other lesson learned from this is use QUALITY parts.

New starter has cured the problem.

[jrmy1krn]

What makes you think a tech would have fixed this any cheaper? You need to be honest. You guys can throw parts at a problem just like any of us shadetree mechanics can. You got to give him credit for not wanting to be probed by you dealership types. Sorry but i've had nothing but bad experiences with GM techs. I was going to school to be GM certified, but when I saw the crookery thats goes on at the dealership shops I quit on moral standings alone.

[UKtech]

Originally Posted by jrmy1krn

What makes you think a tech would have fixed this any cheaper? You need to be honest. You guys can throw parts at a problem just like any of us shadetree mechanics can. You got to give him credit for not wanting to be probed by you dealership types. Sorry but i've had nothing but bad experiences with GM techs. I was going to school to be GM certified, but when I saw the crookery thats goes on at the dealership shops I quit on moral standings alone.

I am not a GM trained tech,I don't work for a dealership i work for an independant. Not all dealerships are like that. You missed the point of my post....basically guesing gets expensive.yes i agree that some techs are like that, mostly those who are flat rate in my experiance. Anyone who knows me knows that i help whenever possible if the person is reasonable about it,right here on this forum for instance. In the case of the owner mentioned above he never came asking for help...it was his wife in the end, he actually hung up on me when i could not diagnose his vehicle over the phone. You can't say all dealerships are bad from the experiances of one or two.

[19jettadad97]

Hey jrmy, not all dealerships are stealerships, just a few. But, if he brought it in it still would have been expensive, but nowhere near what he spent in the long run. It still would have been diagnosed as the starter and if he had it fixed there the first time it would be (what?) a few hundred maybe, with towing, instead of $3500+ whatever he paid to get it fixed right finally. His problem was too many people, who didn't know anything about that car, were telling him what to change. Ask a pro and you get the right answers. That's what's good about these forums, and a dealership, certain people know about certain vehicles. But, like his wife said; he was probably just too proud. He just sounds thick headed to me.

[BNaylor]

UKtech,

Check your PM messages and please provide a reply as soon as possible.