1998 Windstar -- Losing Coolant

[Ron AKA]

I'm quite sure I'm losing coolant at a slow constant rate from my 98 Windstar. It has a 3.8L engine and about 240,000 km on it. I do not see any visible leaks, but I can't smell coolant in the exhaust either. The oil looks dark (not milky), and I burn about a quart every 5000 km, as it has done for quite a few years. Level is definitely not rising.

Thoughts as to where it may be going? and how to further test for it?

How difficult is it to replace head and intake gaskets? Any special tools needed? Which is it more likely to be? I have replaced a head gasket on my Nissan truck, and also intake manifold gaskets on my F150 351. I could smell antifreeze in the exhaust of the Nissan, and I don't remember what the symptoms were on the F150.

Thanks for any and all suggestions,

Ron

[northern piper]

Before jumping to the head gasket as chief coolant loss cause I'd be checking all the rubber and steel tubes which are part of the system. I know on my 2000 the bottom R hose clamp which enters the rad had rotted out and I lost fluid at a very slow rate. It wasn't until got underneath and physically wiggled the bottom hose that the clamp fell off. I replaced the hose and clamp - no more leak.

I too thought the worst when I couldn't find it (ie head gasket). Also check the Y pipe - famous for failure!

Piper

[Ulsterman]

I have a 98 3.8 and carried out the lower intake gasket replacement.
Around the pump itself is another possible source for a leak.
I could see a green tinge on the no4 spark plug when I changed them out and had the same slow coolant loss you describe. I knew what I was facing and drove the van until I got the cel on at which time I changed out the intake manifold gaskets and cleaned the egr ports etc. It wasn't that difficult and has been documented on this site by myself and a number of others.
Good Luck.

[wiswind]

The first in a series of pictures of the lower intake manifold gasket job on my '96.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2529...11220610bclxqN

You will need a good repair manual...... www.alldatadiy.com is a good online source for the factory manual.
Subscription required....but worth it.
Some of the alldatadiy information is available for free on the AutoZone website.

You will need a tool to remove the heater hose from the driver's side, top, of the lower intake manifold...as well as a "quick connect repair kit" to replace the nylon "clips" that will be brittle by this time.
I think the correct size is 3/4.....but double check that.
You will also need a torque wrench that measures INCH pounds.....I recommend a beam type.......the clicker is hard to feel the "click" at the lower levels (I broke one of the bolts due to that).

The UPPER intake manifold gaskets are reusable....just make sure that the seating surfaces are clean.

Do NOT use any metal tooling (including razer blade) to clean the mating surfaces for the lower intake manifold gaskets......use nylon or wood....and solvents (avoiding getting anything down into the intake passages) to clean.
Metal tooling will leave small scratches in the soft alluminum head and permit coolant to "wick"....causing leakage.
This is also true for surface preparation for head gaskets.

I recommend one replace that cross over pipe as I show while you have it all apart.

Use EXTREME care with the IMRC actuators....as the diaphrams in those are fragile.....and once cracked......must be replaced $$$.

As already mentioned.....it is unlikely that you have an issue with the head gaskets.
The lower intake manifold gaskets leak coolant into the intake....and it is drawn into the cylinder(s).....giving some of the same symptoms as a head gasket leak.
As a head gasket job requires that the lower intake manifold gaskets be replaced......one is none the wiser that the head gaskets were fine to start with....but it is more work and $$$

It is also possble that the leak source is the front cover....aka "timing cover" gasket.
That is a MAJOR job that is well beyond my driveway bumbling skills.
Bar's brand of Stop Leak sealed the front cover gasket on my '96 a number of years ago....has held for well over 100K miles.
I caught it when it was a very slight seapage.
The stop leak did NOT solve the lower intake manifold gasket leak.

You might try to locate the source of the leakage before tearing things apart.
Green stain on the upstream (before catalytic coverter) oxygen sensors is a sign of coolant leakage into the cylinder(s).

Coolant in the oil is causing serious damage before you can see it by looking at the oil.
One can contact blackstone labs, www.blackstone-labs.com for a free sample mailer kit....and send in a sample of your oil for testing, which will detect any coolant present.
It is money well spent.

[smata67]

"Bar's brand of Stop Leak sealed the front cover gasket on my '96 a number of years ago....has held for well over 100K miles."

The Bar's Leaks product that is a brown fluid with black pellets in it (Bar's Heavy Duty Stop Leak PLT11 in an 11 ounce bottle) stopped an issue I had whereas I was losing half the overflow resoirvoir of coolant a week on an '88 Nova. I had tried many other available products, including the highly regarded BG, but none worked the miracle that Bars did. The repair has been holding for 5 years now. If you are not physically leaking the fluid anywhere, Bars is the next step.

The product I'm talking about is not the aluminum powder type, that did not work.

[Ron AKA]

Thanks for the tips. When it warms up a little, I will check closer for an external leak. Perhaps the stop leak is next, and then the intake manifold after that.

[tripletdaddy]

Have your system pressure tested. Either pay someone you can trust to do it to find the leak hopefully external to the engine or you can rent one from Autozone or like if they're around. I advise not to put too much pressure on the system or you may find more leaks. :lol It's a 16 psi system, so 12 to 14 might be enough. I just recently discovered a leak on my finlaw's car looking for something else. It was dead quite when I was looking and was able to hear a hissing, sizzling sound of coolant escaping the radiator. If you like fancy testing, you could put a dye in it that will fluoresce with a black light. It's also visible without the uv light. It's what's used to detect ac leaks.

[smata67]

My head gasket leak was very intermittent. I had a mechanic go over it with a fine tooth comb, found no external leaks, even did a test where he heated up the car, put a pressure gauge on the radiator, and left it cool down overnight, as sometimes these leaks are sensitive to the temperature of the engine (ie will leak only when hot or when its cold). Checked the oil for coolant and the coolant for oil, no go. Good mechanic, but could not tell me to replace the head gasket without any proof it was the problem. I was still losing an incredible amount of fluid with no white smoke out the tail pipe. The Bars did the job, but be sure it is the correct one with the pellets.

[Ron AKA]

Put in the Bars stop leak (has the pellets) about a week ago. It certainly appears to have slowed the leak. Will have to watch it more carefully to see if it has stopped.

[Ron AKA]

Just as an update the Bars has held tight for 4 months now. Thanks for the tip.