Got a scanner, now I'm dangerous

[beachrog]

I got a new scanner today it is Innova 3100. I got it as my truck's check engine light has been on since I bought it, like 3 years ago. I figured it was an oxygen sensor but just haven't messed with it.

The scanner returned a code of P0134 HO2S-11 (Bank 1 Sensor 1), I know the sensor 1 is before the cat. Does Bank 1 mean passenger side? I believe cylinder 1 is on the passenger side, but would really like someone to confirm it. I have a 1997 Chevy K1500 350 4x4.

Also the scanner spewed out some freeze frame data. Gives you nice values for everything but doesn't give you any benchmarks so that you can determine if these values are good or bad. Of particular interest to me is the Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure. It read 17.47inHG. Is that within the range that it should be? I just had the lower intake gasket replaced so I was curious how this reading was.

As always any insight is appreciated.

[tempfixit]

Bank 1 is always the same side as number one clyinder, in this case bank 1 is on the drivers side.

Ford engines have number 1 clyinder on the right side or passenger side.

[beachrog]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

Bank 1 is always the same side as number one clyinder, in this case bank 1 is on the drivers side.

Ford engines have number 1 clyinder on the right side or passenger side.

Wow, that didn't jive with the little diagram that prints off from the website for the scanner. Thanks for the heads up on which side. The diagram looked something like this:


1 3 5 7-------B1S1------Cat-----B1S2

2 4 6 8-------B2S1------Cat-----B2S2

I read that as saying passenger side. That's the problem with these aftermarket deals, it asks me to input the year of my truck, then it spits out about 40 pages of junk for all years. Why did it ask me for the year of my truck then? Then it prints a generic diagram that is opposite of my truck. Oh well, that's what I have AF and you guys for.

[MT-2500]

Codes do not say replace sensors.
Things need to be checked out first.
A lot of codes is cause by bad wiring or plug in and other things besides what the code says.
The repair flow chart for the code will point you in the right direction.
Get some good repair info to go with your scanner.
Good factory repair manual or a all data online sub.
Have the repair flow charts for all codes and will led you threw the test.
http://www.alldata.com/products/diy/index.html

Good Luck

[j cAT]

yes it appears you are ! you better start opening the books..

[beachrog]

I thought this was my repair flow:

Year: 1997
Manufacturer: General Motors of Canada Ltd.
Make: Chevrolet
Model: K1500
Engine Type: V8, 5.7L; CPI
Tranmission: Automatic
Trim Level: Base
Mileage: 215000

Solution(s): (Listed in order of most likely to least likely)
Description: Replace Oxygen Sensor(s) (O2S)
Estimated Labor: 1 hours
Additional Cost: $25.00
Description: Oxygen Sensor
Quantity: 1
Estimated Cost: $148.39
=================================================
Total Cost: $173.39

=== Stored Error Code(s) ===
Error Code: P0134
Definition: HO2S-11 (Bank 1 Sensor 1) Insufficient Activity
Conditions: DTC P0101, P0102, P0103, P0106, P0107, P0108, P0112, P0113, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0121, P0122, P0123, P0125, P0128, P0131, P0132, P0135, P0151, P0152, P0201-P0208, P0300, P0410, P0410, P0418, P0419, P0440, P0442, P0443, P0446, P0449, P1133, P1415, P1416, or P1441 not set, engine started, engine runtime over 200 seconds, system voltage over 10.0v, ECT sensor more than 122ºF, and the PCM detected the HO2S signal was fixed between 408-512 mv for over 29 seconds.
Possible Causes: HO2S heater is damaged or has failed HO2S signal or ground circuit has a high resistance condition HO2S signal circuit is open or shorted to system power (B+) HO2S has failed (i.e., it is silicon, water or fuel contaminated) PCM has failed


=== Pending Error Code(s) ===
Error Code: P0135
Definition: HO2S-11 (Bank 1 Sensor 1) Heater Circuit Malfunction
Conditions: DTC P0101-P0103, P0106-P0108, P0112, P0113, P0116-P0118, P0121-P0123, P0131, P0132, P0134, P0137, P0138, P0140, P0151, P0152, P0154, P0157, P0158, P0160, P0200, P0300, P0401, P0404, P0405, P0440, P0442, P0446, P0452, P0453, P1120, P1125, P1220, P1221, P1258, P1404, P1441, P1514, P1515, P1516, P1517 and P1518 not set, engine started, ECT and IAT sensors less than 122ºF and within 14.5ºF at startup, HO2S signal from 425-475 mv right after startup, Intrusive and Scan Tool tests off, MAF sensor less than 25 g/sec, and the PCM detected the HO2S signal remained within 150 mv of startup HO2S signal for a predetermined amount of time based on the ECT and airflow inputs.
Possible Causes: * HO2S heater ground circuit is open or has high resistance
* HO2S heater power circuit is open (test O2A fuse in fuse block)
* HO2S heater element is damaged or has failed
* PCM has failed

Error Code: P1133
Definition: HO2S-11 (Bank 1 Sensor 1) Insufficient Switching
Conditions: DTC P0101-P0103, P0106-P0108, P0112-P0118, P0121-P0123, P0131-P0135, P0151-P0155, P0200, P0300, P0401-P0405, P0440-P0446, P0452, P0453, P1120, P1125, P1220, P1221, P1258, P1404, P1441and P01514, and P1518 not set, engine started, engine speed from 1200-3000 rpm for over 3 minutes in closed loop, system voltage over 10.0v, ECT sensor more than 149ºF, fuel level over 10%, Purge command over 1%, MAF sensor from 23-50 g/sec, TP angle 5% over the idle value on models with TAC, Intrusive and Scan Tool tests inactive for 100 seconds, and the PCM detected the number of rich-to-lean or lean-to-rich HO2S signal transitions during a 100 second sample period were less than a calibrated value.
Possible Causes: * Air leaks present in the exhaust manifold or the exhaust pipes
* Fuel pressure is too high (i.e., causing a rich air fuel mixture)
* HO2S may be contaminated (due to improper fuel or silicone)
* HO2S signal high or low reference circuit has high resistance
* HO2S heater element has failed, or the heater circuit is open
* PCM has failed

Error Code: P0141
Definition: HO2S-12 (Bank 1 Sensor 2) Heater Circuit Malfunction
Conditions: DTC P0101-P0103, P0106-P0108, P0112, P0113, P0116-P0118, P0121-P0123, P0131, P0132, P0134, P0137, P0138, P0140, P0200, P0300, P0401, P0404, P0405, P0440, P0442, P0446, P0452, P0453, P1120, P1125, P1220, P1221, P1258, P1404, P1441, P1514, P1515, P1516, P1517 and P1518 not set, ECT and IAT sensors less than 122ºF and with 14.5ºF at startup, engine started, HO2S signal from 425-475 mv right after startup, Intrusive and Scan Tool tests "off", MAF sensor less than 25 g/sec, and the PCM detected the HO2S signal remained within 150 mv of startup HO2S signal for too long (depends on ECT/MAF signals at startup).
Possible Causes: * HO2S heater ground circuit is open or has high resistance
* HO2S heater power circuit is open (test O2S fuse in fuse block)
* HO2S heater element is damaged or has failed
* PCM has failed
* TSB 00-06-04-006 contains a repair procedure for this code



Freeze Frame Information:
1. DTC for which Freeze Frame was Stored - P0134.
2. Fuel System 1 Status - Closed Loop.
3. Fuel System 2 Status - Closed Loop.
4. Calculated LOAD Value - 19.22 %.
5. Engine Coolant Temp - 186.80 °F.
6. Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 - -0.78 %.
7. Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 - 14.06 %.
8. Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2 - 0.78 %.
9. Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2 - 11.72 %.
10. Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure - 17.47 Inhg.
11. Engine RPM - 1,663.25 Rpm.
12. Vehicle Speed Sensor - 56.54 Mph.
13. Air Flow Rate Mass Air Flow Sensor - 4.97 Lb/Min.
14. Absolute Throttle Position - 21.96 %.

Monitor Information:
1. MIL - ON.
2. Misfire Monitoring - Complete.
3. Fuel System Monitoring - Complete.
4. Comprehensive Component Monitoring - Complete.
5. Catalyst Monitoring - Not Complete.
6. Heated Catalyst Monitoring - Not Supported.
7. Evaporative System Monitoring - Not Supported.
8. Secondary Air System Monitoring - Not Supported.
9. A/C System Refrigerant Monitoring - Not Supported.
10. Oxygen Sensor Monitoring - Complete.
11. Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitoring - Not Complete.
12. EGR System Monitoring - Complete.

[MT-2500]

Better get some good repair info.

http://www.alldata.com/products/diy/index.html

Good Luck

[beachrog]

It's not that I don't hear what you're saying. I actually subscribed to Alldata for 2 years for this truck and was less than impressed. Didn't contain much more than the Haynes manual I had purchased for it.

This site starts to remind me of most of the software support forums that are out there. As you post questions the only responses are "RTFM".

Oh well. Thanks for the time.

[MT-2500]

All data is one of the best repair info information.
It is almost a copy of the factory repair manuals with all updated info and TSB and recalls.
Used buy well over half of the good techs and repair shops and a lot of dealers.

And with scanner a person has to know how to read the info given and even a good scanner does not tell all.

Ps in your fuel trim readings from scanner I would be checking that fuel pressure.
Also it shows codes 135 and 141 and 1133???
Good Luck

[beachrog]

Your point is well taken and actually reiterates the point I made in my original post. The scanner gives me lots of great data, but without some basis for comparison, it's fairly meaningless.

However, the scanner provides more than just the data. Reference my post with the diagram. I've looked at the diagram again and again to see why it seems wrong to me. Thinking maybe I overlooked something. However, it is labeled for a GM it is for an 8 cylinder engine and no matter how I try to look at it (standing on head, putting it in a mirror, etc.) it would appear to me that it is telling me bank 1 is on the passenger side. So even when trying to do some research and learn on my own, I feel like there is too much bogus information out there.

That's why I come here. Immediately someone tells me that bank 1 is driver's side, a direct contradiction to what the diagram from the scanner tells me.

Can I ask if when you look at that diagram, do you interpret it to say Bank 1 is passenger side? Or am I really just way off base.

The thought has crossed my mind that it may not be the sensor but just the wiring. I've been researching on AutoZone how to check that and plan on it before just slapping a sensor in it. However, my question was not if the sensor was bad. It was looking for confirmation as to what was bank 1.

The second question was referring to the extra data and trying to locate some benchmarks for that. Perhaps ALLData has that, I will look. I'm just looking for some additional guidance so that I haven't purchase $300 worth of manuals and subscribed to $200 worth of website just to sit here and say, "I still don't know, they all say something different."

I appreciate your comment about the fuel pressure. That is something I've always questioned about this truck, it has an aftermarket fuel pump in it. It is unbelievably loud and from the minute you turn the key to on, it's making an loud whining noise. Some I have talked to have said, aftermarket pumps are loud deal with it and as long as you can hear it you know it's working. I question that, and based on your comment, I should. If the there was an issue with the sensor (either bad sensor or wiring) wouldn't that impact the fuel trim data?

[MT-2500]

Gm 350 rngine no 1 cylinder is on drivers side.
Bank 1 is always same side where no 1 cylinder is.

Yes when fuel trims is off on both sides always run fuel pressure test.
A bad O2 sensor throws the side with bad sensor off.

A extra noise pump can be bad pump or pump mounting in tank or a restricted fuel filter.

350 CS1 injection specs are 60/66
SFI injection specs is 56/62

On CSI engine look for 60/66
SFI lower specs 4 lbs to 56/62

The only true test on a fuel pump is to check the direct fuel pressure from fuel pump.
A quick test is to block off the return line and see if fuel pressure comes up to 75-85 lbs.
But do not run the pump at full pressure very long.
Also when testing fuel pump and pressure you need to tape a gauge to outside windshield or outside mirror and drive it on the road for 20 -30 minutes
until the pump gets has run a while to check for a pump fading out after hot.

Hard to start cold and fuel pressure testing guide line.
Check cold start fuel pressure.
Check engine running fuel pressure.
Check engine running on the road fuel pressure.
Then shut it off and watch for fast leak down.
Pinch off at rubber part or block off return line and check full pressure.
If pump has full pressure with return line blocked and low pressure without it blocked most usually the fuel pressure regulator is leaking or not holding pressure.
Later V6 and V8 gm engines should have 60-66 fuel pressure.
Cold start should be 64-65 lbs of pressure.
If you do not have full fuel pressure on a cold start the injectors will not squirt fuel.
Do not leave home without it.
Engine running should be 60-66 lbs pressure depending on engine load.
Full pressure with return pinched off should be 75-85 or more.
And if it has a fast leak down after shut off you have a leak in system.
Post back fuel pressure readings.

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by beachrog

Your point is well taken and actually reiterates the point I made in my original post. The scanner gives me lots of great data, but without some basis for comparison, it's fairly meaningless.

This is correct, a scanner is useless in the hands of someone who cannot decipher the information

However, the scanner provides more than just the data. Reference my post with the diagram. I've looked at the diagram again and again to see why it seems wrong to me. Thinking maybe I overlooked something. However, it is labeled for a GM it is for an 8 cylinder engine and no matter how I try to look at it (standing on head, putting it in a mirror, etc.) it would appear to me that it is telling me bank 1 is on the passenger side. So even when trying to do some research and learn on my own, I feel like there is too much bogus information out there.

That's why I come here. Immediately someone tells me that bank 1 is driver's side, a direct contradiction to what the diagram from the scanner tells me.

Can I ask if when you look at that diagram, do you interpret it to say Bank 1 is passenger side? Or am I really just way off base.
No, you are off base, the help you received here was genuine and correct

The thought has crossed my mind that it may not be the sensor but just the wiring. I've been researching on AutoZone how to check that and plan on it before just slapping a sensor in it. However, my question was not if the sensor was bad. It was looking for confirmation as to what was bank 1.

The second question was referring to the extra data and trying to locate some benchmarks for that. Perhaps ALLData has that, I will look. I'm just looking for some additional guidance so that I haven't purchase $300 worth of manuals and subscribed to $200 worth of website just to sit here and say, "I still don't know, they all say something different."

I appreciate your comment about the fuel pressure. That is something I've always questioned about this truck, it has an aftermarket fuel pump in it. It is unbelievably loud and from the minute you turn the key to on, it's making an loud whining noise. Some I have talked to have said, aftermarket pumps are loud deal with it and as long as you can hear it you know it's working. I question that, and based on your comment, I should. If the there was an issue with the sensor (either bad sensor or wiring) wouldn't that impact the fuel trim data?

Understanding the relationship between the O2 sensor data and the FT data is a skill that good Technician has mastered and understands.
Understanding the flow of data can tell you if the sensor is schewing the FT readings or if the relationship between the readings are indicating another concern that need to be delt with.
The info you provided in your post has given me an idea of the possible root cause of your concern, unfortunately your attitude and the fact that you want to argue with the people who are trying to help you is the reason you won't get the answer from me.
Good Luck on your quest

[beachrog]

Originally Posted by GMMerlin

Understanding the relationship between the O2 sensor data and the FT data is a skill that good Technician has mastered and understands.
Understanding the flow of data can tell you if the sensor is schewing the FT readings or if the relationship between the readings are indicating another concern that need to be delt with.
The info you provided in your post has given me an idea of the possible root cause of your concern, unfortunately your attitude and the fact that you want to argue with the people who are trying to help you is the reason you won't get the answer from me.
Good Luck on your quest

Merlin's kind of funny. I don't see where I'm portraying an inappropriate attitude and I think you missed the context of my question regarding the diagram. I did not dispute the person who replied telling me which side was Bank 1. I believed him entirely. My question was simply when looking at the diagram that spit out of the scanner, if THAT particular diagram appeared to anyone else like it was saying Bank 1 was passenger side, as it did to me.

I suppose that is the problem with electronic communication. Unless I put a bunch of smiley icons in my post and some "ZOMFG you guyz r such auto geniuses!!!" in there as well, any intellectual conversation regarding an attempt to educate myself is seen as "attitude".

I appreciate the replies and attempts to help me understand what is going on. It's all a process and if I understood everything the scanner was telling me, I wouldn't need to come here and if everyone did, the forum itself wouldn't exist.

Sometimes that perspective is lost.

P.S. Merlin - thanks for trolling....

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by beachrog

Merlin's kind of funny. I don't see where I'm portraying an inappropriate attitude and I think you missed the context of my question regarding the diagram. I did not dispute the person who replied telling me which side was Bank 1. I believed him entirely. My question was simply when looking at the diagram that spit out of the scanner, if THAT particular diagram appeared to anyone else like it was saying Bank 1 was passenger side, as it did to me.

I suppose that is the problem with electronic communication. Unless I put a bunch of smiley icons in my post and some "ZOMFG you guyz r such auto geniuses!!!" in there as well, any intellectual conversation regarding an attempt to educate myself is seen as "attitude".

I appreciate the replies and attempts to help me understand what is going on. It's all a process and if I understood everything the scanner was telling me, I wouldn't need to come here and if everyone did, the forum itself wouldn't exist.

Sometimes that perspective is lost.

P.S. Merlin - thanks for trolling....

what a bunch of B/S..do you want to fix this ? measure fuel pressures...does it hold spec pressure with engine turned off ?

swap the bank one upstream O2 sensor with the bank 2 upsteam sensor does the DTC change ?

post back you findings ...you are dangerous,,,a little knowledge and a cheap dtc code reader..

[zirb]

If you only knew what Merlin really does in real life you would listen to him with no questions asked. It only took me 3 years and alot of education to know about 1/10th of what Merlin knows. He is one of the few in this field that you can trust. If you can get Merlin to start talking about something you better listen and get your books out and take alot of notes. He don't say that "he knows stuff" just to say it.