oil dipstick leak/spray

[boothkc]

Just wondering if anyone has this issue and a solution. On both the GTS and GTRA in very hard cornering we can get oil to "spritz" out of the top of the dipstick tube out from under the collar of the stick handle.

Only when pushing hard through certain corners and it sprays on the headers with the GTS. Replaced the dipsticks from Panoz no help....cut some hose to make a skirt and now drips down the tube vs. smokes.

Oil level is correct and not too full.....any ideas or perhaps better tube?

Kevin

[Panoz Paul]

I've experiance a simular mistery oil drip in hard cornering conditions ... I believe that my issue is that with only one valve cover breather which is a push in K&N type / 5/8's dia. rubber gromment , the pressure / velocity carries the atomized oil up & out ... I get a saturated filter which drules with lateral loads ...
Looking at a catch can system w/ a tubed vent or if I can find a valve cover w/ a 1.5" dia. riser & install a clamp on filter to reduce the velocity ... Thanks / Paul W.

[Gatorac]

On my Mustang that did this I got a brass compression fitting and put it on the dipstick tupe to cap it off completely.

[eric1h]

could it be a clogged/stuck PCV causing too much crankcase pressure? Long shot, but a thought

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by boothkc

any ideas or perhaps better tube?
Kevin

Sounds like a combination of slosh/surge/windage/crank ventilation. I have chased this on a couple of cars now and have only overcome the issue when there has been sufficient breathing area to adequately relieve crankcase pressure.

When I swapped my GTRA over to alloy heads & carb I welded in a -10 fitting into each rocker cover and vented these to to a 2 quart catch can with a filter on top. I also added an oil return line off the bottom of the catch can back to the sump (effectively making a closed loop return for oil carried to the catch can due to long distance racing I am doing).

This is working OK but I would put 2 x -12 breather lines in if I was doing this again, mainly to reduce the velocity within the breather lines. The catch can oil return works OK, but I am getting some oil dripping out of the catch tank filter during long races. I suspect this is due to oil being pushed from the sump and up catch can oil drain line, or due to the filter 'straining oil mist from the breathed air and then it drips out of the filter material.

I am also interested to know what sort of oil consumption other owners are experiencing with their 302 or 351 powered cars. Seems like mine uses around .5 of a quart per race hour or so (does not breath excessively or smoke). I need to account for this as next race I am targetting is 6 hours so this could be critical (i.e. we may need to top up oil at a fuel stop).

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by NZGTRA17

I am also interested to know what sort of oil consumption other owners are experiencing with their 302 or 351 powered cars. Seems like mine uses around .5 of a quart per race hour or so (does not breath excessively or smoke). I need to account for this as next race I am targetting is 6 hours so this could be critical (i.e. we may need to top up oil at a fuel stop).

I agree.... 1/2 quart an hour is about right.

[eric1h]

Well I'd think, top it off an extra quart at the start, run a 3 qt accusump and you should be fine for a 6 hour race at 1/2qt an hour.

[Panoz Paul]

Kel ; A couple questions about your system ... Who's catch can did you use or did you make it ... Valve cover tie in loaction ; top , middle , end ... I'll be just catching , not re-feeding the case , so that detail can be deleted ... Thanks / Paul W.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz Paul

Kel ; A couple questions about your system ... Who's catch can did you use or did you make it ... Valve cover tie in loaction ; top , middle , end ... I'll be just catching , not re-feeding the case , so that detail can be deleted ... Thanks / Paul W.

Paul, I used a Petersen Fluid Systems catch can. It is large at 2 - 2.5 quarts but our New Zealand rules require this. I would look around a bit at what is available in your area as I think the design of the Petersen could be better. Things to look for;

- Can you pull the can apart if required (you may want to put a "sock" over the end of the tube within the can that goes up to the filter so that it takes oil out of the breathed air prior to hitting the top filter)?
- Does the can have sufficient baffles to effectively slow and get oil out of suspension with the air prior to hitting the filter at the top?
- Does the can have enough fittings of the right size to save adaptors or cutting/welding?
- How easy will the can be to mount (I had to make and weld a mount bracket on mine).

I welded -10 aluminium fittings into the std hole locations in the top (opposing ends on each cover) of the Ford Racing rocker covers that I have. Unfortunately this actually required machining up a stepped spigot due to mismatch in sizes between the -10 weld in fittings and the holes in the top of the covers.

I think the layout I have used is very similar to a std GTS except I have used a larger catch can. I recommend putting the catch can on the passenger side of the engine compartment. Nothing worse than mist/oil coming from engine bay onto drivers side of the screen.

[eric1h]

Originally Posted by NZGTRA17

Sounds like a combination of slosh/surge/windage/crank ventilation. I have chased this on a couple of cars now and have only overcome the issue when there has been sufficient breathing area to adequately relieve crankcase pressure.

When I swapped my GTRA over to alloy heads & carb I welded in a -10 fitting into each rocker cover and vented these to to a 2 quart catch can with a filter on top. I also added an oil return line off the bottom of the catch can back to the sump (effectively making a closed loop return for oil carried to the catch can due to long distance racing I am doing).

This is working OK but I would put 2 x -12 breather lines in if I was doing this again, mainly to reduce the velocity within the breather lines. The catch can oil return works OK, but I am getting some oil dripping out of the catch tank filter during long races. I suspect this is due to oil being pushed from the sump and up catch can oil drain line, or due to the filter 'straining oil mist from the breathed air and then it drips out of the filter material.

I am also interested to know what sort of oil consumption other owners are experiencing with their 302 or 351 powered cars. Seems like mine uses around .5 of a quart per race hour or so (does not breath excessively or smoke). I need to account for this as next race I am targetting is 6 hours so this could be critical (i.e. we may need to top up oil at a fuel stop).

are you using an accusump? if so any pics? I am about to install one in my car and would love to see how/where you mounted it.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by eric1h

are you using an accusump? if so any pics? I am about to install one in my car and would love to see how/where you mounted it.

Hi Eric, no I am not using an accusump on the car as yet. Figured I would see how the Panoz (Canton?) wet sump held up first. I have had a good look at the sump and think the design is quite good. Would perhaps benefit from a windage/stripper tray. I will be pulling the engine in the next week or so and checking the bearings etc prior to 6 hour race so will have a better handle on how the sump is performing. Has anyone else suffered bearing failure in one of these cars due to oil starvation?

I am only 'moderate' fan of accusumps. I have had wet, wet + accusump and dry sump race engines in the past. I think an accusump may help you get by, but if you are really truning up the revs and windage/oiling becomes an issue, a dry sump is the way to go. Went through this with my last race car (500+hp classic muscle car) and had to bite the bullet in the end and go dry sump. Wasted a bunch of time trying to make the wet sump and accusump work in the meantime. I know budget is always the issue as this is why I am sticking with the wet sump now. That along with trying to keep the car as light and simple as possible.

Thanks for suggestions on 6 hour race. I am a little wary of over topping though as I have generally found this can cause windage or oil foaming/frothing issues. We will have to experiement and see how much additional oil this engine can take prior to causing oil 'frothing' and excessive breathing.

I was thinking of putting a line into the engine with a 1 way valve and using likes of a sludge gun to inject 1 quart into this line at each fuel fill. Have seen this done sucessfully on a wet sump car before. Will think on this some more though as I have 3 months to have car ready for the race.

[boothkc]

We had the windage tray crack in a 4hr Enduro that we won in the GTS car....Panoz and Canton no longer recomend the use of the windage tray with the pan used on the GTS cars as it has a scraper in it. Not sure what pan is on the GTRAs or if they have a tray.

The oil dipstick spray is clearly related to cornering pressure as it happens in both the GTS and GTRA cars. The GTS cars are well vented. Doubt all 3 cars have plugged vents, but possible.

We use an Accusump in the GTS (required by Panoz for certain tracks such as Willow Springs California) and no oil issues in 4h race.

Kevin

[PanozDuke]

Originally Posted by boothkc

We had the windage tray crack in a 4hr Enduro that we won in the GTS car....Panoz and Canton no longer recomend the use of the windage tray with the pan used on the GTS cars as it has a scraper in it. Not sure what pan is on the GTRAs or if they have a tray.

The oil dipstick spray is clearly related to cornering pressure as it happens in both the GTS and GTRA cars. The GTS cars are well vented. Doubt all 3 cars have plugged vents, but possible.

We use an Accusump in the GTS (required by Panoz for certain tracks such as Willow Springs California) and no oil issues in 4h race.

Kevin

Is the windage tray you are talking about the wire mesh screen sold by Canton as a separate part that bolts onto the #2 and #4 main caps using studs? Is the scraper you are refering to the sheet metal strip welded along the inside of the driver's side pan rail, angled downward at about a 45 degree angle? The scraper in the 5.0 Canton road race pan I recently installed on another car lacked a close fit to the rotating assembly on the stock 5.0. I was wondering if it was of any significant benefit. Do the RA cars have the Canton mesh windage tray?

Mike

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by PanozDuke

I was wondering if it was of any significant benefit. Do the RA cars have the Canton mesh windage tray?
Mike

Mike, RA's do not appear to have the separate windage tray fitted.

Agree with your thoughts re the crank scraper. In the past I have profile cut these so that there is less than .050" (dynamic) clearance between the whole length of the scraper and the rotating assembly. I know some builders that try to run them as close as .025".

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by boothkc

We use an Accusump in the GTS (required by Panoz for certain tracks such as Willow Springs California) and no oil issues in 4h race.

Kevin

Kevin, do you have any records on approximate oil consumption per race hour?

What oiling issues occurred at Willow Springs that made Panoz require use of an Accusump there (assume oil starvation)? Is the problem cured by the Accusump? Have you ever had a bearing failure due to oil starvation?

Where have you mounted the Accusump and where is it feeding into in the oil system?

Thanks,