GTS specs for GT2 SCCA racing

[Wess-RA]

Below is an outake of the SCCA GT2 class rules: Anyone have a copy of the GTS specs they require? (shown in red) I have the Parts Manual and the Users Manual. I believe the specs they refer to are something else.

GT2

Cars - PANOZ

Model Years Body Style Driveline
Wheelbase
(in)
Notes

Esperante GTS NA 2dr RWD 107.6 Cars must be prepared to Panoz Esperante GTS specifications and competitors must have a copy
of the current GTS rules in their possession. Wheels: (F) 18x10 (R)18x11, Track (F) 64.0 (R)67.8.
Any tire with a diameter of 17” or 18” may be used provided the tire does not exceed a maximum
cross section width of 11.5” in the front and 12.5” in the rear.

Engines - PANOZ

Engine Family Engine
Type
Bore x Stroke
(mm)
Disp.
(cc)
Head
Type
Valves/
Cyl.
Fuel
Induction
Weight
(lbs)
Notes

OHV 101.6 x 88.9 5754 Alum,
Crossflow
2 Holly 4bbl. 750
cfm #0-4779C.
ProForm 67100C
throttle body
- Panoz part
#GTS6-3349
allowed.
2880 Maximum compression ratio of 10.5:1. Fresh air
intake air cleaner housing Panoz #GTS9-3348

allowed.

[panozracing]

http://www.panozauto.com/EsperanteGT...tm#Performance


Good luck with running with the 996/997 and the others in that class. A stock GTS wont do it! Mid pack at best!

Run NASA ST1/ST2 and dial it in and win!

[PRO SYSTEMS]

The GT2 rules that SCCA setup for the Panoz is an insult. It displays one of two things.

1. They do not want the Panoz in the class.
2. They have no idea what it takes to go fast.
3. They really haven't paid much attention to the car.

SCCA knows how to write rules for close parity. So #1 or # 3 are the best bet here.

NASA is your only choice for the Panoz that I can see.

I am an SCCA racer (NASA races are few and far between in my area), I was going to buy a Panoz, but there is no place for the car.

It's too bad, as it is called the Sports Car club of America, but it has a bias towards a German car. We have learned nothing from the British.

[Wess-RA]

Brian thanks for the link. Will a printout of this meet the requirement? So how do you fit into this with your high H.P.? I'm trying to figure out future engine choices within this whole mix. I know I'm going to get killed with my little Explorer engine that wishes it could. In our San Francisco region we have a "SP" (Super Production) class which they describe as "Drive what ya brung". Those cars are even faster though. Unlimited modifications.

Pro Systems-(sorry I don't have your name). In our area I have been told by some really fast guys with really nice cars that NASA is not the way to go; unless you don't mind trading paint (I don't have any). I have heard that the entries are cheap and therefore we get a bunch of guys who bring beat up cars and it isn't uncommon to see guys with rubber mallets banging on their fenders to make them drivable after rubbing.

That doesn't sound appealing to me. Maybe its different in your regions. If I go with the SP class and put in somewhere around 450+ H.P. I expect that I could have a pretty respectable battle with the Porsche's. On the track days (granted, not real racers) I have no problem beating them in turns. I just hate it when they walk away in the straights. The H.P. should fix that problem and make this car competitive , yes?

[PRO SYSTEMS]

In our region in GT2 I would expect a well sorted car to be 5 seconds off the pace at Sebring compared to the Porsche's. So not even close. Too bad, cool car....still want one...just need a place to race it.

Patrick James
PRO SYSTEMS

[Wess-RA]

Damn, I thought we would give the Porsches a serious run. Still though, bang for the buck, Porsches can't touch our cars.

Do you guys agree or disagree with my comments on NASA.

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by Wess-RA

Damn, I thought we would give the Porsches a serious run. Still though, bang for the buck, Porsches can't touch our cars.

Do you guys agree or disagree with my comments on NASA.

Completely disagree about NASA.... In my experience the SCCA drivers and NASA drivers are similar. Alot of them run both clubs. I have been rubbed and rubbed in both clubs. Its racing after all. Never in HPDE though. In order to run SCCA GT2 you have to have the SEALED panoz motor. In my opinion its a WEAK motor and has to be rebuilt too much. We built a car/motor to run with the good p-car drivers and it just so happen fits pretty well in the ST1 NASA class. My biggest complaint in both clubs is the lack of tight racing action in the florida region. I end up racing with radicals and GT1 cars and thats not really fair for us. One kills us in the brakes/turns and the other kills us in the straights.....

My brother and I love to eat up the p-cars....I hate those f-in stuck up p-car owners. They always accuse when they get beat. Drives us crazy! Pony up and go get em!

[GTS#25]

Wess,

I have the info you are looking for. PM me with your email address and I will send the .pdf to you.

If you are not running a GTS, i belive you will be SOL for running in GT2.

Doug

[David Eastman]

Wess,

Nasa southeast guy seem to be a good bunch of guys. I would suggest to you to check out Nasa in your reagion for your self. Maybe do a few DEs and get to know them. You may be suprised. Another choice is HSR. I know those guys don't like to trade paint.

David

[Soflow1]

Wess,

Long story short, to run a GT-RA or GT-WC in SCCA GT2 National events "legally" would require some costly modifications and replacements. In my opinion it would be cheaper to buy a used GTS then to upgrade an ex-school car due primarily to the number of factory sealed components (engine, ignition, shocks, etc.) required to meet the rules.

I think running NASA or HSR are really good options for the GT-RA or GT-WC. Even SCCA regionals might be Ok so long as nobody was uptight about your car's configuration. I wouldn't even think about trying to enter an SCCA National event as you would most certainly be protested.

I disagree with those that say a GTS is mid-pack at best in GT2. A current spec 2006+ GTS with its 445hp and 18x10 & 18x11 wheels is much quicker then the original GTS with its 385hp and 17x9 wheels. If you doubt me, review the 2007 SCCA Runoffs qualifying grid. Two Panoz qualified at the top of the grid. They ultimately did not finish because they took each other out early in the race, but they proved a GTS could be competitive if driven well and properly prepared.

As far as your GT-RA is concerned, the original 5.0 liter (or for that matter the entire car) is not suitable for racing. It was intended as a training vehicle and not a race car. The GT-RA engine doesn't breath well so its VERY top end limited. Anything you can do to move the rev band up will pay dividends on the track. Depending upon the track, a Panoz making about 450hp at around 6K rpm will make for a competent and reliable T1 vette and P-car competitor.

Just my 2 cents!

Rod Strub
Alpharetta, GA

[panozracing]

Hey, I love our GTS cars. I have been racing them since 2004 with upgraded engines in 2005 and 18x10 fr. and 18x12 rears (recently went to 18x11 fr.). I have experience racing at sebring, daytona, homestead, morosso (not the new PBIR yet), barber, road atlanta, and mid-ohio. I have raced 1990 911 RS America and the Panoz (we did DE's with G35 and M3). I watched the 2007 run-offs and saw the qualifying times. I also watched the 2008 run-offs and (I think there was 3 panoz's) the panoz's where mid pack and the p-cars got outrun too. 2007 winner Wayland Joe races with us in Florida and I have run against him when we had a stock panoz (got smoked but I cant remember what configuration we had so this isnt relevant ).

Certain tracks are better for certain cars. The tracks that I have run on, a stock GTS (current spec without cowl induction and throttle body) will barely hang with a 996 cup car and there is no chance of running with a 997 cup car. Our cars will run with them but we are not current spec. I guess to be totally fair we didnt get completely current. We never ran the cowl induction and the upgraded throttle body upgrades so maybe a totally current car will run with a 996 cup car but I dont see how it will run with a 997. We got tired of getting beat before those upgrades where released so we started on our own. We actually went away from stock before they allowed the 18" rims. So our first non-stcok moves was 18x10 front and 18x12 rears then we built out own engines.

I have NEVER seen any national level race where a GTS has won against a Cup Car. I wish they where more competitive. I also wish the sealed motor was built a little stronger and wasnt so fragile. I also have never heard of a GTS running consistant times that are national level competitve. I had lots of discussions with Joel Grewitt (Technical Dir. @ Panoz) before he left. He agreed it was unfair (at the time only the 996 was released) and he was fighting for the throttle body and cowl induction upgrades but he knew that wouldnt be enough to fight the soon to be released 997's maybe not even enough for the 996's. When he left so do all the possibilities for SCCA upgrades. I dont think anyone at Panoz is talking to SCCA anymore. So we got a couple of small upgrades and Porsche released a new car with lots of upgrades. I am sure a new Cup Car is coming too..... How do we change the rules with SCCA? Seems much easier to compete with NASA.

Am I missing something? I also realize that this is all very subjective because the key to all of this is properly preppared and good drivers. I would say our cars are setup pretty good (could be better) and we drive well (also could be better). We hired a pro crew cheif once and there is much more we could be doing and we dont have data acquistion yet which would help a lot.....

[coach0187]

Doesn't the 997 runs in GT1? We run a GTS in texas and are planning on doing the SCCA runoffs again just because they are at Road america. The panoz should be able to run with the p cars there.

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by coach0187

Doesn't the 997 runs in GT1? We run a GTS in texas and are planning on doing the SCCA runoffs again just because they are at Road america. The panoz should be able to run with the p cars there.

I just searched the SCCA GCR and I stand corrected. The 997 is GT1...GOOD CATCH!

So, you have a GTS...how do you do against the good drivers in a 996? Is your GTS still SCCA legal? did you run 2008 runoffs?

[coach0187]

We ran the 2006 runoffs and finished 7th with a flat on the last lap. We ran as fast as the p cars but had some shock problems. We don't have any real fast 996's here but at the runoffs waylan was the only one that was a big problem. As far as the car we have worked very hard on making it as light as possible. Right now we have to add 100lbs to make the 2880 weight. It does have a sealed motor from kuntz in ark. I worked with Joel alot when I rebuilt the car right before the 2006 runoffs.

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by coach0187

We ran the 2006 runoffs and finished 7th with a flat on the last lap. We ran as fast as the p cars but had some shock problems. We don't have any real fast 996's here but at the runoffs waylan was the only one that was a big problem. As far as the car we have worked very hard on making it as light as possible. Right now we have to add 100lbs to make the 2880 weight. It does have a sealed motor from kuntz in ark. I worked with Joel alot when I rebuilt the car right before the 2006 runoffs.

WOW...both of our GTS's weigh 2780 without driver. What did you do to get it that light? I run against NGT (waylands support team) and all their drivers all the time in florida. A few of them are REAL fast in the p-cars especially the owner. They dont like us . Did you run this years runoff? We went thru 3 motors before we gave up on them. We even tried a crate motor from ford. All of them with hyd. valvetrain are too gentle. I am not sure why but we never had a problem in the p-cars we raced before the Panoz. We have not had issues with the solid valvetrain we currently run....