Anti-freeze

[MikeMcQn]

I have 2001 Chevy Venture 80k miles.I had rust colored anti freeze the fans would stay on immediately the temperature gauge would not move.The mechanic said he flushed system replaced thermostat and coolant sensor, and put in green antifreeze. Do I have to worry that he did not replace with dexcool

['97ventureowner]

There might be an issue if it doesn't meet the GM specs for the proper coolant. Here is an article I link to whenever the discussion comes up on why to continue to use Dex Cool in your engine: http://free-auto-repair-advice.blogs...label/Dex-Cool . The internal parts of the engine were made to run with the Dex Cool and if something else is used then those parts may end up being damaged over time. I'd ask the shop what coolant they used and see if they would exchange it for the Dex Cool. Many mechanics seemed to be biased towards using Dex Cool as they see what happens to some engines that run with it. Most of the damage is due to faulty materials ( gaskets) air infiltrating the cooling system,(jelling) and rust/sludge,(again air getting in the system, poor maintenance intervals and contamination. Many mechanics automatically assume it's the Dex Cool and try to use an alternate. Properly maintained, (i.e. keeping an eye on the level, changing it out a little more frequently than recommended , 2 to 3 years, and @ 40,000 miles versus 5 yrs/150k miles, along with keeping air out of the system,can help to keep the engine running fine).Also thoroughly flushing the old coolant out of the cooling system before replacing is a good idea as well.

[MikeMcQn]

I have seen your same reply to any dexcool debate. Being I know nothing about cars I am asking if I should worry because my car was drained of dexcool and filled with ordinary green antifreeze.

['97ventureowner]

If it was the old standby for decades, ethylene glycol then yes I'd be worried. The older, ethylene glycol based coolant has a different protection package within the coolant to protect the interior components of your engine. Dex Cool was developed because engines became more sophisticated and different metals were used in their construction.
Some of the newer long life coolants have a greenish appearance so that is why I asked what coolant they used not knowing if it was the older antifreeze or one of the newer ones.There shouldn't be too much damage if you ran the old green coolant in your newer engine for a short period of time. Just drain out the old stuff and use the recommended one. If it is one of the longer life coolants then you don't have to worry as much as they do have some of the protection that your modern engine requires.There has been some talk on both the internet and this site as to whether these new, green long life coolants should be used as a replacement for Dex Cool. I think that a lot of people who choose to use these other coolants feel that Dex Cool was the source of their engine/cooling issues and using another product may be better. While these long life coolants are similar, they are not all the same and the best bet would be to stick with what your vehicle manufacturer recommends, (in this case it's Dex Cool.) The best answer is to do a little research and look at the options, and that way you can make an informed decision that you feel comfortable with.

[SLJ2137694]

97ventureowner pretty much told it like it is. Tell your tech to stop trying to re-engineer your car and install the correct coolant in it. Be sure the system is completely flushed prior to the installation of the correct coolant!

[MikeMcQn]

Thanks for the detailed response 97 venture owner. I don't believe he is trying to re-engineer anything and me telling someone how to fix a car when I know nothing about them would not help. I am just trying to find information about the changes that were made because I do not want to be driving around a ticking time bomb.

[97Venture_Chick]

Well...as long as the system was completely flushed before putting in the green anti-freeze, there wont be any immediate problems. Years down the road it could cause some internal rust, but like I said...years down the road. Dexcool is kinda crappy anyways...it caused one of my hoses to completely corrode not allowing any fluid to pass through. Causing a leak. So the switch is not a bad thing as long as there was a complete flush done before hand.

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by 97Venture_Chick

Well...as long as the system was completely flushed before putting in the green anti-freeze, there wont be any immediate problems. Years down the road it could cause some internal rust, but like I said...years down the road. Dexcool is kinda crappy anyways...it caused one of my hoses to completely corrode not allowing any fluid to pass through. Causing a leak. So the switch is not a bad thing as long as there was a complete flush done before hand.

Actually if you read the story in the link I provided in my first post in this thread you would see that it could be sooner that damage could take place internally. I don't believe the Dex Cool caused your hose to corrode as there may have been other circumstances such as contamination of the coolant that could have caused this. Contamination is a big issue with these newer, modern coolants. If one does not do a proper flush and Dex Cool mixes with ethylene glycol then a host of problems can result. Those two coolants are dissimilar in nature ( like mixing orange juice and milk.) The ethylene glycol , used for nearly a century has silicates in it and is considered "Inorganic Additive Technology or IAT, the Dex Cool is considered Organic Acid Technology or OAT and are generally incompatible with the IAT coolants.

[MikeMcQn]

I believe this is the anti-freeze that was used Pride 500.
http://www.prideantifreeze.com/Pride_500_V100407.pdf

[merc81]

I'm loath to comment on debates, but the antifreeze issue is a question many folks have after they have worked on their engines and need to refill the antifreeze.

I read the article linked above about the dangers of going back to 'green' antifreeze rather than orange. (Actually, the link isn't working at the moment, but I've read it before) Frankly, even if what they claim is true, the only item in the engine that may wear prermaturely is the water pump. The 3.4 engine has been made by GM for a generation now, and almost all of them used the old style higher ph green antifreeze. The major change to the block of the engine is the switch to aluminum timing chain covers with the built in water pump housing.
Ford had aluminum front covers like that in 1967 in their 351 Cleavland engines and those used green antifreeze!
The big change between orange and green was supposed be a lower PH for the orange, but the fact is the old green stuff worked fine for decades and decades.

Personally, I don't care for the orange stuff because of the way it gunks up over time. But the big difference I think is the average of twice the cost for orange over green. I'd rather change my coolant once a year and use the cheaper stuff than invest in top price dexcool and try to keep it in the engine for years on end. Heck, straight water cools better than any antifreeze and would be just fine other than freezing in winter.
Coolant should do just that, carry off engine heat. Rust inhibitors, antifreeze, stabilizers, etc, etc, are nice if they work, but I'm not investing a fortune when the solution used for years is still working fine.

Until the cost comes down, GM can keep their Dexcool and I'll deal with the water pump if it ever fails (240k miles so far). There just isn't any convincing argument for the orange over the green unless they start selling some dexcool type that really lasts as long as they claim and doesn't cost $20 bucks a gallon.

['97ventureowner]

First off $20 a gallon? Where is that? In my area I can get it for $12 a gallon and that's A C Delco brand. Even Wal Mart sells this :http://www.havoline.com/products/na/antifreeze_01.html cheaper than that and it meets GM specs.
The big debate as to the effectiveness of Dex Cool versus etylene glycol is it's properties and inhibitor/ protection packages. The Dex Cool has more to offer in it's package,(look at it this way, if you were at the doctor's office and he had a shot to protect you from 2 illnesses and another for 6 illnesses, which one would you choose?)That basically is the analogy in discussing the differences in the coolants.The way the Dex Cool protects the internal engine components is different as well as the protection doesn't deplete as quickly as it does with the old green antifreeze, and need to be replenished as often.

Originally Posted by merc81

Heck, straight water cools better than any antifreeze and would be just fine other than freezing in winter.

In this case you are referring to coolant and not antifreeze as antifreeze refers to protection against freezing and coolant refers to heat dissipation. Many people use those terms interchangeable, but they are different.
Basically Dex Cool was developed as a technological improvement/replacement for the older technology ( etylene glycol). It happens all the time, (for instance you had vinyl records which was replaced by cassette tapes, which were replaced by CDs, and also VCRs replaced by DVDs and now BluRay as examples.) It is a nod to the future as engines are becoming more complex which will require technology for it to perform at it's best. (We just have to catch up to it and be able to support it, something we've had trouble with in the last decade.)

[merc81]

Wal-mart in Uniontown PA wants $18.95 for Dex-cool while Xerex green is going for $7.49. That's a major price hit.

My point is there is no magic reason for staying with dexcool and not going to generic green coolant. Folks generally seem overly concerned that doing this is a "bad thing," mostly because it says so very plainly on that big sticker on the overflow bottle and elsewhere in the engine compartment.

The only internal engine component that could be adversely affected by this change is the water pump. The rest is just castings with no moving parts. I switched 3 of these vans over to green coolant some time ago (by now that's over 150k combined miles) and never had a problem. There is never any gook in the fluid as there almost always is with orange coolant.

By the way, my mother-in-law's 1990 olds cutlass used dex-cool so its not real new. I just don't happen to think the stuff is as good as the old green color or even the newer 'any color' coolants.

That needed to be said because there are a lot of folks out there that are afraid to switch coolants even though they really want to. They are being told that the old coolant will somehow 'eat' their vital internal engine parts and it just ain't so.
It may be better to stay with the dex-cool until you need to do a major overhaul of some sort, but its my experience that the dex-cool is double or more on cost and the green stuff works just as well if not better.
John

[DRW1000]

I just started driving my wife's old 99 Venture as a winter beater. I am just here reading posts as I just replaced the water pump. Anyway, we have owned the van since new and I have had the intake gaskets done once while under warranty and then I did it again about 3 years ago in my driveway. I also replaced the water pump twice, most recently on Sunday.

In any event I have to agree 100% with 97venture owner. Having a lot of exposure to the gaskets and the internet`s general fear of dex-cool. I thought of replacing mine with the green long life too. However, I don`t think anyone has proven that dexcool is a problem - just a lot of unsubstantiated internet rumours. I decided to just stick with what GM recommends. They redesigned the gaskets. It might have been easier for GM to simply change the recommended coolant if that was the real problem.

I also read the coolant vs antifreeze debate above. I got a bit lost. In any event water has a high specific heat capacity, meaning it is good at taking the heat out of the engine. However pure water freezes at 32F and boils at 212F. The addition of coolant (the stuff in the jugs) to water provides a lower freezing point and higher boiling point (dependant upon mixture.) The coolant also has additives to prevent rust and corrosion and perhaps some to condiion gaskets and water pump lubricants. A 50/50 mixture is good in many areas.

As for the cost one should compare apples to apples and use the same brand. I paid about $18.99 (CDN) 4 litres of the Prestone Dex-cool spec coolant and the other long life green stuff from Prestone was about a buck less. They both will probably be a bit cheaper in the US. You only need 2 bottles at the most.

My 2 cents on the OPs concern is that your mecahninc seemed to do all the right things for your original issue but he should have used Dex-cool as specified. Little damage will occur short term and perhaps none long term (who knows) but you should go back and talk to him. Did he give you the choice at the beginning. Even if he will not take responsibility you need to decide the cost of a flush and fill vs the cost of unnecessary worry.