Starter removal???

[Cobrargc]

Now that I got his power window working......................he needs a new starter, although I think just the solenoid is bad, but since they will both be out I might as well replace them.

My question is HOW DOES THIS STARTER COME OUT? I got up under the car and was able to rock the starter back and forth. Apparently both the starter bolts had worked loose (a lot). I was able to tighten the one front bolt. I can barely see the back bolt and it lies about 1 1/2" above the cross member. Even if I could get access the the bolt with tools, there isn't enough room to swing the long bolt out of the starter. My hand, dandy and worthless Chiltons gives directions for starter removal for a 2.2, 2.5, 2.8, two 3.1 engines, and a 3.3. No mention of any 3.8 that was used in them for 5 years. So even if I could get the starter loose, I'm not sure what hoops I'll have to jump through to get it out. The Chilton instructions for the other larger engines say to discharged the AC, remove the fan, and remove the front exhaust manifold.

Any one have any hints? Its a '87 Olds Ciera with the 3.8 engine.

Thanks

[Scrapper]

i've changed quite a few starters on these 3800 on pa and had no trouble it should be about the same set up as yours. try looking up how to on the park avenue and yours should look almost the same.