93 camry coolant leak. bad water pump?

[VGIZZO]

Hello. My Camry was sitting for a couple of days and I noticed a large puddle of antifreeze eminating from aorund the passenger side near the right front wheel. I refilled the coolant and started the car but I don't think the coolant is flowing through the system as no more coolant has leaked.

I shut off the car right away when it started smoking. From what I read, I think the water pump went bad and the coolant leaked out of the weeping hole.

If this is the case, I'll probably have replace the head gaskets and check the heads for warpage. Is this an accurate assumption? Also, I don't think the temp gauge is working since it didn't go up at all when I start the car. It might now work if there is no coolant, correct?

Any advice suggestion on what i should do next before tearing the car apart?

[VGIZZO]

oh, and I have a V6 engine. the 3ZFE1(i forgot the actual name)

[jdmccright]

I'd first check the thermostat and the cooling fan temperature switch. If the upper radiator hose stays cold after the engine gets hot, the thermostat is stuck shut. The fan operation is also dependent on the coolant temperature. If there's no flow, the coolant temp in the radiator never rises to turn on the fans.

It's possible that the coolant leak is simply that...a loose rad hose clamp or leaking thermostat housing gasket. Look closely where the coolant's coming from...you should be able to see where the coolant has leaked down and dried if it is coming from the upper portion of the engine. Water pump failure is rare for Camrys, so I 'd check the above first before tearing the front off the engine to replace the water pump. Good luck!

[VGIZZO]

Ok. I took the thermostat out and boiled it in water. It appears to be opening and closeing just fine. I didn't find any bad hoses or leaks.

I'm trying to get to the water pump but I'm having a little trouble getting the timing belt off. I read in the book I have to wedge a screwdriver or prybar against the flywheel ring gear so I can lossen the crankshaft pulley bolt.

I think the 1zfe or 4 cyl has some kind of flywheel plate but it looks like I would have to take off the whole housing on the 3ZFE. i want to avoid this becasue I think I would have to remove some of teh exhasust to do this.

I read on some other post that I can take off the starter and jam it there? Will this work? or should I get a special tool to hold the bolt? Any suggestions. Thanks.

[Brian R.]

Yes, you can take off the starter and jam the ring gear from that point. There is a reasonable chance that all the kings horses and all the kings men will not break that bolt loose (crank pulley bolt). In that case, put socket attached to a breaker bar on it with the end of the breaker bar (with or without a cheater bar) carefully against the ground so that when the engine turns clockwise (as viewed from the passenger side of the car), the breaker bar is pushed against the ground and will back out the bolt (it has standard direction threads). The breaker bar should be pointed toward the front of the car. Pull the plug wires or disable the ignition in some way and blip the starter. The starter will break it loose. If the socket breaks, buy an impact socket and try again.

[davemac2]

Brian's suggestion of a breaker bar against the floor or the engine subframe is the easiest method. One or two blips on the starter and it's free. To tighten it up, you can use the rope or oil trick method in one of the cylinders to lock the engine while you tighten it up, or jam the flywheel with a screwdriver. (I prefer the rope trick myself). Before you remove the Tbelt, mark it and the timing pulleys and the crankshaft sprocket with a paint pen. It makes it much easier to put it back on later properly. If you replace the belt, take the old belt and put it against the new belt and transfer the paint marks to it.

It's likely your water pump. My wife's camry's 3vzfe original pump went around 130Kmi. If enough leaked out from the weep hole, then the pump may no longer be primed if its even still capable of pumping. As well, there is probably no coolant around the temp gauge sensor in the water outlet, which would explain the gauge no working properly. If you have not driven it in this condition or have not experienced an overheat, then your HG is probably fine. Idling will likely not damage the HG. If you still have the OEM plastic rad and are over 100Kmi, I would replace that too for reliability because they are known to crack. If you want some peace of mind with regards to the HG, you can always do a chemical block test. The kits are around $25-$30. If you do find that the HG is leaking, it wil likely be the front bank (even 2-4-6), around #6 which is the typical spot for these engines.

dave mc

[VGIZZO]

Thanks for the advice guys. I was able to get the crackshaft pulley bolt off by jaming at the starter and using a 24" heavy duty breaker bar loaned from Autozone. When I finally got the timing belt off, I noticed that it was shredded at the lower portion behind the pulley. I'm not sure if it was like this or if I did it when aligning the pulleys. I'm not sure if the engine would run at all if a portion of the belt was shredded. or would it?... This would not explain the leak either, would it?

The water pump is off but I can't tell if it's bad or not. I can still turn it OK. Can it still be bad? The sealant and around the pump and the thermostat and connected pipe just crumbled when I took them off.

Dave, the car has 160k miles, so if your wife's went at 130k, I gues it's possible that the pump went bad. Did you replace it yourself? Like I mentioned before, how can I tell if it is bad.

Thanks.

[davemac2]

That sounds weird the your Tbelt was shredded at one spot around the CS timing sprocket? So it's uneven wear just in that spot? It sounds like maybe you tried to remove the CS pulley by jamming the cams. Take a pic.

I did not replace my wife's water pump at that time, but I did a few months back for another reason. The waterpump shaft seal can fail which is when you can get the leakage out of the weep hole. It's hard to look at a pump and see this failure. Any bearing play on the shaft? Is the impeller in good shape? Anyways, whether it is the pump itself or not, replacing it with a new gasket, and a new thermostat with a new o-ring should solve any leaks in that area. Don't put the old pump back. Replace it and the T-belt. Check your crankshaft and camshaft oil seals for any leakage too. Be sure to replace the o-ring used between the thermostat housing and the outlet pipe. Lubricate it with some soapy water before assembling.

dave mc

[VGIZZO]

I installed the new water pump and thermostat. Now I'm trying to get the timing belt on. I can't seem to slip it on. I got everything aligned but can't get the belt to go around the water pump and timing tensioner pulley idlers. I actually got it on once by turning the RH cam clockwise to give me some slack but the belt moved the other cam and crankshaft and misaligned everything (timing marks off). Any suggestions? Thanks.

[davemac2]

Originally Posted by VGIZZO

I installed the new water pump and thermostat. Now I'm trying to get the timing belt on. I can't seem to slip it on. I got everything aligned but can't get the belt to go around the water pump and timing tensioner pulley idlers. I actually got it on once by turning the RH cam clockwise to give me some slack but the belt moved the other cam and crankshaft and misaligned everything (timing marks off). Any suggestions? Thanks.

I assume you removed the hydraulic tensioner right? That should give you plenty of slack to get the belt on. I assume by RH cam, you mean the cam closest to the firewall. You have the right idea of moving the RH cam clockwise to get some slack. You can follow these steps below. Removal of the top idler pulley is optional, but it makes it easier.

1. Remove the top idler pulley but leave it on top of the engine with its bolt in so you have it ready to put back on with one hand.

2. Line everything up including the left hand cam sprocket, then jam something such as a socket between the left cam/belt and the timing cover back near the top idler pulley so that the belt won't slip and the LH cam will be jammed. Pick a socket size that will fit snuggly.

3. Then move the RH cam with a socket wrench clockwise to develop slack between the cam sprockets. This should tension the belt in all other areas since you have jammed the left cam.

4. When you have all the belt slack between the cams, keep the tension on the right cam and re-install the top idler pulley with one hand. As you are tensioning the RH cam, you may need to kind of keep tension on the belt by having the idler pulley kind of resting in between the cams on the belt ready to be installed.

5. Once the pulley is back on, torque its bolt and remove the jamming socket and you should be ready to install the hydraulic tensioner.

dave mc

[VGIZZO]

Well, I got everything back together and I must have fixed something (replaced waterpump and thermostat). There are no leaks and the upper radiator hose now gets hot. The temperature gauge is working as well. However, some other problems have surfaced.

When I first tried to start the car, it started right up and then stalled. After starting it again and giving it some gas it stayed alive. I think the engine is idling too low at around 600-800 RPM. When I put it in reverse, it is too much and the car stalls unless I rev the engine a little. If I leav it in park or neytral it does not stall and it seems ok when I put it in too drive.

Any suggestions on what could be wrong. I replaced the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, alternator belt; and had to remove and replace the starter and air filter housing (to get to the ring gear and jam it). Again, thanks for your help.

[davemac2]

600-800 RPM is normal idle speed. For a cold start, it should be a little faster maybe. If you did not have this problem prior to the t-belt change, then your timing is likely off. Ie, you did not get the cams and crank pulley aligned properly.

dave mc

[VGIZZO]

hmmm.. I had them lined up when I tightened everything. However, when I tightened the crankshaft pulley, the mark was slight off from 0 but just slightly. Can a small variation affect it that much?

I also moved the LH and RH cams separately at times to get the marks to line up. Is it possible for all the marks to line up but the cams are not at TDC because I moved them separately? Can I find TDC by sticking a screwdires in the no. 1 hold, loosen the timing belt, and then adjust everything accordingly?

I only changed a timing belt once before on a Mustang but didn't have this problem. I think I had to adjust the timing on the distributor cap last time.

[davemac2]

yes being off a little bit will affect it. Did you put marks on the old belt and the cams and CS sprocket and then use the marks on the old belt to transfer to the new, or did you just try to line up the cams to their marks and the CS sprocket at TDC and then install the new belt? The mark transfer technique to the new belt is always the surest way to get it back on right. Yes, you can use a screwdriver or even better, 1.5 ft 1/4 dowel rod into #1 to sense TDC if you like but that may be difficult since #1 is near the firewall. #4 should be at its lowest at TDC I think, so that may be easier to use. After installing the T-belt, it is important to turn the engine thru 2 revolutions to get the belt tensioned correctly and then recheck all of your alignment on the cams and the CS sprocket.

see this thread for some tips:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh....php?p=2256132

dave mc

[VGIZZO]

I used a new belt and lined everything up by the marks on the camshaft sprokets and crankshaft.

When I pulled the timing belt cover and turned the crankshaft to 0, it was lined up better than I thought...

I didn't keep good track of what I was turning. I think Everything is lined up but the crankshaft is off by 180 degrees... as desribed in the link you sent meP:

Just do your initial belt installation exactly how toyota says to do it: Align the pulley marks with the engine marks. (Make certain you are at TDC on the crank, its possible to be 180 degrees off.)

If I line up the crankshaft mark to 0 where the cams are not lined up, I can them slip off the belt an realign the camshaft sprokets to the timing marks... which will now be at TDC.

Does this make sense?