95 Saturn SC2 5 speed - ENGINE REMOVAL

[fritcr]

My 12 y/o son and I are trying to remove the engine on an SC2 5sp. I bought a used engine for it and just need to swap it out. I have done some research on here and the saturn site. From everything I have read etc...the engine can be removed from the top of the car without much trouble except for the front crank pulley. We have everything disconnected and the front crank pully off the car. ONLY 3 bolts holding the engine to the transmission. Got a cherry picker everything. I had also picked up a Haynes manual for it the otherday. I was unsure if I needed to remove the bracket from the engine and tranny that the exhaust bolts too. I got in the Haynes manual and find this:

**NOTE** The engine can be removed from the car separate from the transaxle if the the transmisison is an automatic. The engine and transmission MUST be removed as a until if the car has a manual transmission.
WHHHAAAATT?????????

I freaked...so now the car is sitting in my garage with 3 bolts holding it in and some tension on the cherry picker until I find out the truth. In all of my reading I never saw anyone say that this is the case.
Can someone confirm this or let me know if I can get it out without removing the transaxle??

Sorry...just kinda freaked me out...now I don't know what to do next.

Rob

PS..haven't ran into many problems until this!

[RC1488]

You can remove JUST the engine regardless of tranny type from the top. However, with a manual, you have clearence issues. The tranny must be pushed back into the drivers side wheel well about ~3 inches, so that the input shaft is out of the clutch and pressure plate. In an auto, the torque converter can be unbolted from the flex plate from under the car and therefore no clearence issue occur.

[fritcr]

Can you tell me what I will need to do to get that kind of clearance to get it out? I'm so close and we are all wound up and excited! Great learning for my 12 y/o and his old man is learning a bit also. LOL
Rob

ps..thanks so much for the quick reply...you have helped me before with other questions.

[RC1488]

Really, it would be easier to take the entire thing out as is. Mostly because the same steps need to be taken. In order to get these 3 inches of clearance more things need to be taken apart :/

To get the engine out alone:
1. Remove the drivers side inner shrouding.
2. Remove the lower tranny mount
3. Remove the drivers side axle; remove the 30mm nut. remove the strut to spindle bolts (18mm and 21mm). You then may be able to turn the wheel and remove the axle from the spindle (if not then also remove the tie rod end). From there remove axle from the tranny (its held on with a c ring so just give it a good pull and it will pop out.
4. Push the tranny away from the engine into the wheel well. The other axle has nothing holding it in so it will slide out as the tranny is being pushed. A jack helps keep it upright.
5. From here push it in untill it clears the pressure plate. It will be a balancing act, so some rope to help it stay where you want it can help.
6. Now remove the motor

Removal with engine and tranny:
Same steps 1-3.
4. Pull passenger axle out from tranny (leave it connected to the spindle)
5. Remove tranny and engine as is connected.

Other option:
Drop subframe onto a dolley. I use the engine hoist to lift the car up about 34in, with the back of the car on 2 jack stands for support. I then lower the subframe onto a dolley and roll the entire drivetrain out from under the car. I then can remove the engine and leave the tranny/axles/ and everything else as is. To do this you need to unhook the entire exhuast system so you can rotate it. Not that hard really

Your choice i suppose

[fritcr]

RC, thanks again for responding! Well, your right...sounds like just taking them out together would be easier. I just didn't want to mess with the axles. I would done the subframe thing like you said but I didn't think I could get the car up that high and I don't have a tranny jack or whatever. hmmm does sound much easier. Oh well, live and learn...I'll try to ge the axles out. Maybe taking the tranny out with it won't be as bad as I thought. Any trick to unhooking the line for the clutch?
Rob

[RC1488]

Remove the 2 bolts for the clutch slave cylinder. Then push in and turn the cylinder clock wise and pull it. Tie rap this part to the drivers side of the fuse box and do NOT touch it or the clutch pedal until it is back in place.

The clutch cables are held on with 2 clips U shaped clips. Just pull the clips off with pliers and remove the cable base. At the shift tower its just a O shaped bushing pushed on to a rod. Easy enough

The axles dont take to long. A nice crow bar is helpful for the drivers side axle. use the tranny CASE for leverage, not the thin metal around the axle on the case. You dont want to bend that.

[fritcr]

Thanks sooo much for all of your help! It will be a busy week for me but will try to work on it as I have time. I'm sure I will have more questions.
Rob

[Cat Fuzz]

Tie the clutch pedal up. If you don't, you WILL push it down for some dumb reason and blow your slave cylinder apart.

[fritcr]

Well, IT IS OUT!!! Sitting on a tire in my garage. Whew what a mess.
Thanks again for the help so far. I'm sure I will have other issues going back in.
As a note to others that might use this thread...I found the following:
The passenger axle does have to have the carrier ? removed from the engine block to get it to slide out of the tranny. I did leave it in the axle hub but wasn't sure how that carrier thing worked. It does not come apart that I could see so I unbolted it from the engine then pushed the engine to the far drivers side and it slid out finally.
Also, when removing the clutch slave cylinder thing...you must push and turn it COUNTERCLOCKWISE not CLOCKWISE.
Also...I found this out the hard way and should have known, DUH, that you must drain the tranny fluid BEFORE you take the axle out. I made a big mess!
I'll be getting the used engine ready to go back in probalby this weekend.
Good idea to tie the clutch up! I'll do that when I get home.
Rob

[RC1488]

Yea the 3 bolts holding the passenger halfshaft have to be undone

And sorry about the wrong directoins. Not sure why i said clockwise

[Cat Fuzz]

You know it was a good day by the size of the puddle on the garage floor.

[fritcr]

Well it has been very cold here and I have been busy with all kinds of other holiday stuff so I have not got much done lately. I do have the donar engine in the garage and now have the tranny bolted to it and everything all ready to go back in the car except one thing!!! The BLASTED front crank pulley! I can't get it off the donar engine. I sprayed it with PB Blaster and jack hammered it with an air wrench for a while but no budging at all. With it hanging in the air and no way to hold anything I can't use a cheater bar on it very well. Hmmm will try to hammer it some more after letting that blaster sit on it a few days.
Rob

[RC1488]

PB blast it before work and when you get home. Make sure the air gun is on HIGH. Then just have at it. It will come loose eventually

[Cat Fuzz]

Crank the air pressure up a bit on the compressor and put a few drops of air tool oil into the inlet on the impact wrench. That will give you a little more torque.

[fritcr]

OK, well we are getting there slowly. I got the crank pully off with a cheater bar and my son holding the tire iron jambed in there so it could not turn. We got the donar engine back in the car and everything hooked up. All is done except NOW IT WON'T START!!! We were both so dissapointed last night. We worked hard on it all day so we could get it going and it cranks but will not fire up. Here is what I have checked. (remember it was late and we were tired) I'll do some more checking tonight but it does have fire on every cylinder....it does have fuel pressure at the schreader valve. It however NEVER hits not even one time. I expected to find it did not have fire but it does. I don't really know how to tell if the injectors are pulsing. I did some reading and will do more as time permits here at work. I'll try to get a stethascope from my dad tonight and see if I can hear them pulsing. I don't know what else it could be. If you have fire and gas what's left. The car ran when we started this.(the orginal but needed a valve job) The guy said the engine ran fine when he took it out of his wrecked car. Was very nice and seems honest. I did do a mmo soak on it before we put it in the car and the plugs are very oily but what are the chances that all 4 plugs would be completly fouled out so bad that it would not even try to hit? I'm going to pick up new plugs for it on the way home tonight anyway we I can rule that out. I have a complete engine that ran in the shed with all sensors and wires on it but if both of them ran then I don't know it could be. I also used the coil paks, wires etc off the orginial engine. Not that it matters since it IS fireing. OMG>..sorry for this long post.
My son has named it "Sally" the Saturn. He was not very happy with Sally last night when she would not start! haha
Rob