Almost stop brakes

[dj1111]

Man I hate anti-lock brakes. Or at least the ones on my '98 Venture. This was my first (and only so far) vehicle with ABS. And did I say I hate them? When I purchased my 2000 Saturn I intentionally made sure I found one without ABS. I had an old 1976 Bronco known for horrible brake systems that I felt more confident with stopping in the snow. At least I could pump them and feel like I had complete control of it. If I try to stop the Venture and the ABS kicks in it literally feels like it will never stop. I end up pumping the brakes anyway just to get the thing to slow down. Maybe this isn't normal but I hate to bring it into the shop and run up another out of this world repair bill. Anyone with suggestions? Is there a simple "control module" or something that can be replaced? I'm half temped to figure out a way to disable it.

[roadrunner2]

Originally Posted by dj1111

Man I anti-lock brakes. Or at least the ones on my '98 Venture. This was my first (and only so far) vehicle with ABS. And did I say I them? When I purchased my 2000 Saturn I intentionally made sure I found one without ABS. I had an old 1976 Bronco known for horrible brake systems that I felt more confident with stopping in the snow. At least I could pump them and feel like I had complete control of it. If I try to stop the Venture and the ABS kicks in it literally feels like it will never stop. I end up pumping the brakes anyway just to get the thing to slow down. Maybe this isn't normal but I to bring it into the shop and run up another out of this world repair bill. Anyone with suggestions? Is there a simple "control module" or something that can be replaced? I'm half temped to figure out a way to disable it.

If the ABS isn't working you will (or should) have an illuminated ABS warning in the message box and a red ABS indicator light on the dash.

The hydraulic modulator/motor pack assembly used on your van ('97 thru '99 models) is fastened directly to the brake master cylinder.

The ECBM (Electronic Brake Control Module) is located under the left end of the instrument panel on your van.

This module monitors the ABS and controls the the anti-lock valve solenoids.

If there is a fault this module will store a code.

Hope that helps.

[phipps]

If you are pumping the brakes you are making matters worse. The ABS is doing that for you.

Sounds to me like you are just not used to ABS brakes. Take the van out on a nice big slick parking lot and make lots of stops so you can get used to them.

Have you checked your pads and rotors to make sure they are in good condition?

[dj1111]

The pads and rotors are fine, I just replaced them a couple of months ago. I guess I'm just old school. And so is my wife. She does not like them either. This is our 5th winter driving the Van so our dislike for ABS is nothing new. The one place where ABS fails in my book is when you come up to a stop sign and there is glare ice in two fairly narrow paths under your wheels. The ABS will kick in, keep your car going straight (on that ice) and go right through the stop sign. Without ABS your car would have probably slipped to the side of that ice and got grip in some snow or dryer pavement and come to a quicker stop. Or, because you are not so dependant on the ABS doing the work for you, you would have steered off the ice and onto something with better grip.

[roadrunner2]

Originally Posted by dj1111

The pads and rotors are fine, I just replaced them a couple of months ago. I guess I'm just old school. And so is my wife. She does not like them either. This is our 5th winter driving the Van so our dislike for ABS is nothing new. The one place where ABS fails in my book is when you come up to a stop sign and there is glare ice in two fairly narrow paths under your wheels. The ABS will kick in, keep your car going straight (on that ice) and go right through the stop sign. Without ABS your car would have probably slipped to the side of that ice and got grip in some snow or dryer pavement and come to a quicker stop. Or, because you are not so dependant on the ABS doing the work for you, you would have steered off the ice and onto something with better grip.

The ABS was doing it's intended job. It's up to the driver to turn the steering wheel.

Better winter tires and slowing before getting to that slippery section is the trick.

[dj1111]

Looks like I'm not going to win any arguments here. Interestingly I was in a meeting today at work and during a slight break in the discussions I posed the question "how do you like anti lock brakes". Unanimously everyone (4 other people) said they do not like them. They would much rather drive a vehicle that has conventional brakes. It made me feel better.

Thanks for your opinions though. I understand the concepts behind the system, I just don't think my Venture's system is working correctly. Or is an inferior design. It seems like once it releases the brakes, due to wheel slip, it does not reapply them strong enough to slow the vehicle down in a reasonable amount of time. But I dread bringing into the shop. This thing has cost me enough this year for repairs.

And I also feel that systems like this (you can argue they make driving slightly safer) do nothing to make people better drivers. In fact I think people become more dependent on it doing the thinking for them and ultimately they are worse off for it. They now produce a car that can parallel park for you, give me a break. There's nothing like driving a 1976 Bronco through 5 winters that was V8 powered, with a manual transmission, manual steering, over sized tires, traction lock rear end and an inferior braking system to teach you how to drive. That thing was one of the funnest but snakiest vehicles I ever owned. Could go through the deepest snow with ease, but was a white knuckle challenge at all times to keep it between the ditches during winter.

[dewaynep]

You could always just pull the abs fuse to deactivate the abs system. It is not a required system so you aren't breaking any laws by doing it. As a side note, I tend to hear complaints about ABS brakes from people living in the southern US more than up north. True, on dry pavement you may be able to stop faster by skidding but on snow or esspecially ice you have much more control with ABS. I personally like them, but I do know people who hate them and don't blame them. I would rather be able to control my vehicle while it is skidding rather than have no control...

[Cressidaadr]

Originally Posted by dewaynep

I would rather be able to control my vehicle while it is skidding rather than have no control...

What - and miss etching into your memory doing a 180 or even 360 degree spin out before coming to a stop.

Never can forget driving a rental Chevy Citation and cresting a curve at the top of a hill only to see a 4 way stop sign appear right over the darn hill. Hit the brakes and all of a sudden wondered why the stop sign now appeared in my drivers side window? About that time I realized it was because the back end broke loose and was coming around on me. At that point you are just along for the ride and things start going in slow motion until it all ends. Luckily for me there were no other cars around so I made it through my first test with front wheel drive and later learned that those Citations had a dangerous issue with locking up the rear wheels.

FWIW, my 98 Venture is the first vehicle that I've owned with ABS and this will be my first winter with it so I don't know how I am going to like it. However, I know it is going to be hard not to pump the brake like I have learned to do over the years. Slaming on the brake and holding it down is going to be hard to do especially moving back and forth from my other cars that do not have ABS.

[roadrunner2]

Originally Posted by Cressidaadr

What - and miss etching into your memory doing a 180 or even 360 degree spin out before coming to a stop.

Never can forget driving a rental Chevy Citation and cresting a curve at the top of a hill only to see a 4 way stop sign appear right over the darn hill. Hit the brakes and all of a sudden wondered why the stop sign now appeared in my drivers side window? About that time I realized it was because the back end broke loose and was coming around on me. At that point you are just along for the ride and things start going in slow motion until it all ends. Luckily for me there were no other cars around so I made it through my first test with front wheel drive and later learned that those Citations had a dangerous issue with locking up the rear wheels.

FWIW, my 98 Venture is the first vehicle that I've owned with ABS and this will be my first winter with it so I don't know how I am going to like it. However, I know it is going to be hard not to pump the brake like I have learned to do over the years. Slaming on the brake and holding it down is going to be hard to do especially moving back and forth from my other cars that do not have ABS.

Wait until you feel the weird vibration in your foot when the ABS activates.

It took me awhile to get used to ABS too, but yeah, it is imperative you do NOT pump these brakes as you will defeat the purpose. (You already know that though)