01 Windstar Rough Idle

[Andrew1941]

2001 Windstar, 3.8L, Sport, 130,000KM, completed P0174 fix already and recently changed to aftermarket DPFE.

I have been having issues lately. It has been running rough at 80km/hr under light acceleration. I thought I had this beat when I tracked it down to the DPFE sensor being stuck at a fixed output voltage when I forced the EGR valve open. I changed the sensor about two weeks ago and the problem got better, but the problem has come back, which has led me to open her up again trying to find out what is wrong.

I thought I should check out the spark plugs to verify if they were original. They are not, they are Bosh Platinum and I believe they were changed around 90,000 to 100,000km. In pulling them out, I noticed all were in good condition, no fouled ends or weird colours, all looked about the same and visible cracks or anything. Gap was set at 0.060" on all six. I checked the Ford manual and it said 0.052" to 0.056". I gapped to 0.052" and put it back together. It ran really rough at idle after that. I pulled the battery cable off to reset the computer and then fired it back up again to try and reset things. It didn't get any better.

I pulled all the plugs again and reset gap to 0.056". Put it together and it got a little better, but still not good. I took it for drive and noticed that the power really isn't there, the exhaust stinks and it feels a bit like misfire on accelleration. No engine codes up yet.

I am betting the wires (still original Motorcraft wires installed) or the distrubutor block are fubar, but I couldn't get any parts today to check. Can anybody help? Am I on the right track or am I pissin in the wind?

PS. I am going to replace the wires as soon as I can get some regardless as they are old, but should I replace the distributor cap as well?

[LeSabre97mint]

Andrew

Have you read trough the posts at the top of this forum? Here is on that may answer some of your questions: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=672854

FYI....Windstars do not use dis caps. The wires come off of the coil.

Here is a clip from the above link.

SPARK PLUGS and Ignition:
The windstar factory spark plugs are rated for 100K miles.
The correct replacement spark plug is a double platinum plug......with platinum enhancement on BOTH the center electrode and the Ground tab.
This is because the windstar's ignition system uses a Positive spark on one side of the engine and a Negative spark on the other side. This causes the center electrode to wear faster on one side of the engine, and the ground electrode to wear faster on the other.
At this time, only Motorcraft and Autolite brands carry this type of spark plug.


I hope this may point you in the right direction.

Regards

Dan

[FordGuy81]

Andrew1941,

I would replace the plugs with Motorcrafts or Autolite DP's. I would also get Motorcraft plug wires.

Do you have any engine codes or a scanner to check for them? If there are codes present it should point you in the right direction.

Bill

[Andrew1941]

I have a scanner, but no CEL yet. I will check with the scanner tonight and see if anything is registered. I am not really a believer in the use only Motorcraft parts stuff. I have had success with most aftermarket parts. So far the only thing I found that was really wrong was the PCV valve wouldn't physically fit. As far as the spark plugs, I have been running the Bosch ones flawlessly for some time, so I don't know if I believe there is much difference. I didn't pick the Bosch over the Motorcraft, it was just out of waht was readily available. Maybe if I have to change the plugs again, I will look at finding Motorcraft in adavance. The wires I found today were either Bosch or NGK. I took the NGK ones. They should be fine, after all, its just a wire.

[Andrew1941]

Checked with the scanner and there was nothing pending. I purchased NGK wires and changed them. The old wires had some minor damage on two on the outside, but more importantly, one wire end (spark plug end) was covered (inside plug boot) in what looked like corrosion you get on your battery terminal. It wasn't terribly bad, but nothing present in any others. However, the new wires did nothing to resolve the issue I have.

I then brought out my volt meter and removed one plug wire at the coil pack end of the lead (passenger side, front of engine). Stuck my NEG on the battery and the POS on the coil pack and fired up the van. At first I was getting -5V, -6V, -7V etc, as it would be moving around rather quickly. As I went through each connection (shutting of the engine in between and reconnecting/disconnecting) I moved through all the connections. It seemed to me that the negative voltages on the first one were not as large negative as they were on the middle and driver side front connections. I wasn't sure, so I tested again. On the second go around, I noticed that now the first one was only giving -0.5V and basically not going over -1V. I then tested the middle front and noticed that at first it was -5V and moving around and after a few seconds, it too dropped below -1V. On checking the drivers side front, it did not raise above -4V, i.e. no decimal voltages. Does this mean the coil pack is bad?

Just to note, the positive side of the coil pack (compartment side or back of engine) were all positive voltages and all were moving around +4V up to +11V, nothing lower. They were changing pretty quickly, but in general it seemed they were significantly high voltages than the negative side of the coil pack.

If someone can help me figure out if the coil pack is bad, it would be helpful instead me guessing and spending unneccesarily.

[FordGuy81]

Andrew1941,

Coil packs can be hard to test. You can check the primary and secondary windings for resistence with a DMM set to Ohms, however this is not a fool proof test either. A failing coil may not really present itself until it is under load.

You an check the secondaries by removing two sister cylinder plug wires and checking the resistence between them. The primaries are located where the harness plugs into the coil. I'm not familiar with which prongs to test on this side of the coil. Again, this is not a fool proof test. A coil could still be failing even if this test checks out.

[12Ounce]

I agree with FordGuy81, .... ig packs are tough to test directly. The ohmmeter tests should be done. On the primary side, each lead to ground should be 10 - 20 ohms or so, IIRC. On the secondary side, each cable connection point to ground should be super high, "totally open", resistance. I also like to include two additional tests, ... the underhood viewing, in darkness, to check for leakage coronas ... and using a clip-on inductive spark tester, test each plug cable for a strong assertive spark (you can also pull each cable from plug while engine is idling and listen for sparking and running effects ... careful!). You probably will find some more info on AutoZone.com.

Be sure you have cables in correct order. I do not like the one-by-one replacement method, it just allows an error to live-on .... I figure if I do not understand the firing order and cable layout before beginning, I shouldn't begin to pull the cables!

Your symptoms sound much like a vacuum leak to me ... or cables out of order.

[Andrew1941]

Can you give me the firing order and cable layout? i.e. which coilpack electrode goes to which cylinder? By the way, I do not know which cyclinder is which by just the number. I someone had a photo that was marked up with the numbers and/or lines drawn from the coil pack back to spark locations on the engine that would be great! I don't think I have a problem, but it would be one more thing verified as correct and one more thing learned!

Thanks all

[FordGuy81]

The engine cylinders are numbered this way:


Passenger side back <----1 2 3

Passenger side front<-----4 5 6

For the coil pack, I don't have the manual with me, but I believe it is numbered this way:

5 1
6 2
4 3
v
Front of car

cylinders 5 & 1; 6 & 2; 4 & 3 are sister cylinders. That may or may not be the correct firing order, but sister cylinders on the coil pack are accross from one another. Think of a line straight down the coil pack with 3 coils on each side. The two coils beside each other accross this line would sisters, so check the resistence between those two coils.

Bill

[Andrew1941]

Thanks,

I got a PM from someone who gave me a picture. It shows:

Starting at Passenger side towards Driver side from the coil pack in the following rows as the coil pack is in the same rectangular orientation as the engine block:

Passenger Compartment

Passeneger Side ---> Drivers Side

Coil Pack
4, 6, 5
3, 2, 1

Engine
1, 2, 3
4, 5, 6

Front of Vehicle

[12Ounce]

I believe it is laid out exactly as FordGuy81 wrote. Here is a picture that also shows coil and cable layout:
.
http://www.autozone.com/shopping/rep...00c152800adf78

[Andrew1941]

Regardless of layout, I found my issue and it wasn't wiring. The symbol with the guy hitting his head in the wall should have my face on it. The problem was the spark plugs.

I bought new Motorcraft plugs and tried them since the new wires didn't improve things. Van runs like new now. I looked close at the Bosch platinum plugs that I pulled out. They had only been in for about 30,000 km and all looked identical. I never installed them and haven't worked much with plugs. I looked at them for any discolouring, cracking, melting of the electrode etc, but saw nothing. Then I noticed it. Looking at the new plugs and looking at the old, all six old plugs had no tips left on them! Nothing! There were no burn marks, nothing, just no metal tip, only ceramic. I feel pretty dumb because I looked at them and didn't see it the first time since they all looked identical.

Any way, case closed. Obviously what they say about not using other manufacturer's plugs in a Ford engine is true. THEY WILL NOT LAST.

[FordGuy81]

Originally Posted by Andrew1941

Any way, case closed. Obviously what they say about not using other manufacturer's plugs in a Ford engine is true. THEY WILL NOT LAST.

Yep, I've never had any luck with other brands of spark plugs in every Ford I've owned. Motorcraft only.

Glad you got it figured out

Bill

[12Ounce]

All plugs are somewhat delicate and very sensitive to overtorqueing ... I have read that Bosch are especially so. I like Champions, but they are easily cracked if the plug wrench isn't kept very straight ... or so it seems for me.

Glad you found the problem.