1994 1.9L Cranking, not starting

[RocketUSA]

Ok, this has been talked about as an afterthought in another thread, so I've decided to post to bring this matter to the attention of all... So, to summarize:

Yesterday I pulled a tight u-turn in front of my friend's house, and the car died. It will crank, but not start. All of the lights and electronics work inside. The fuel pump runs for a second or two when I turn the key on. Sometimes it sounds like it misfires when trying to start it, sometimes it fires normally.

I have checked the inertia switch. It's pressed down. I'm getting spark. I replaced the coil, no effect. I manually grounded the fuel pump (I shorted it according to the Haynes manual, by shorting a diagnostic lead to ground.) I checked the Key On Engine Off trouble codes, it returns all clear. I have a half tank of gas.

This "dying on a u-turn" has happened two other times in the past 6 months. Each time it died, it didn't want to start back up the first try, but did on the second try.

Things I have not checked:
I have not tested the schrader valve for fuel pressure. I have not verified the timing belt is still intact, but I suspect it is due to the fact I have seen this overall symptom before. I have checked some fuses, but I believe I missed some.

I'm going to try spraying some starter fluid in the throttle body to see if that does anything. Otherwise...


Help!

[mightymoose_22]

Just to clarify... in the past when this has happened you were able to restart the car on the second try, but now it will not start at all?

My suggestion is to double check your vacuum lines as the car may simply be stalling with the low rpm's in the turn. CHeck the lines and the intake manifold for a leak. If you have the equipment, pressure test each cylinder.

[RocketUSA]

Yes, in the past I was able to restart the car on the second try. This time it simply won't start.

I don't have a compression tester, although I've been thinking about buying one for a while. I'll check the vacuum lines if I can find them all...

What's the best way to check the intake manifold?

[AzTumbleweed]

I wonder if it could be the ignition switch?

[mightymoose_22]

If the engine isn't running you will need a vacuum pump to test for leaks. Applying vacuum at the vacuum port on top of the manifold will let you test for leaks around the manifold. Basically, if pressure holds then you know there is no leak. If pressure doesn't build or slowly leaks then you will need to isolate each system to find out where the problem lies. If you do get the engine running, you could check for leaks with soapy water along the mating surface of the manifold. If the water finds a leak you should be able to hear the engine pick up or run smoother.

However, since the engine isn't running, let's put the vacuum problem aside for now (although that could have something to do with it having died in the first place).

Is your crank sensor plugged in?

I believe you said you have spark... how did you verify that?

It sounds silly, but are the plug wires in the correct order, and seated firmly on the plugs?

If you have the know-how... disconnect your ignition switch and attempt to start the car with jumpers rather than the key... perhaps the ignition switch is worn and not making good connections.

Just some thoughts... these engines are pretty straightforward. There are only so many things that can prevent it from starting.

[RocketUSA]

Is your crank sensor plugged in?
Did not check it. Is that the one behind/under the oil filter?

I believe you said you have spark... how did you verify that?
Pulled a couple of plugs, shorted against block. Also put an inline tester on one. I only pulled a couple since when I tried pulling them the metal socket pulled out of the plug. Ouch. Used a couple old ones as replacement, taken from an old tune-up. They were working when I replaced, just old.

It sounds silly, but are the plug wires in the correct order, and seated firmly on the plugs?
Yes, triple checked. I drove the car all over yesterday, then went kaput.

[mightymoose_22]

YEs, that is where the crank sensor is, but you wouldn't have gotten spark if it was unplugged, so leave it alone.

With that info, I suppose you just need to verify fuel pressure. You said you heard the pump running, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have pressure.

Open up your schrader valve to let out any pressure in the line. After that, turn the key on (don't crank) and let the pump build pressure, then turn it off. DO that a couple of times. Go back and check if there is pressure at the valve.

If fuel pressure checks out, look further into your ignition wiring. If fuel pressure seems fishy, check your filter before getting into the pumps.

[RocketUSA]

Originally Posted by mightymoose_22

If fuel pressure checks out, look further into your ignition wiring.

Ok, I'll try the fuel pressure check. By "ignition wiring" do you mean inside at the key?

[mightymoose_22]

Yes... lots of people have had problems with this ignition switch after 8-10 years or so. Mine is a 94 too and the ignition doesn't always shut off right... so far no trouble starting it though. It just gets worn out, and a bad connection could cause the car to stop running as you described.

Other than a fuel problem or ignition problem, the only other thing stopping this car from starting would be some sort of valve problem preventing compression.

[RocketUSA]

I'm with you so far. I'll be able to look at it in about an hour. Otherwise, I just can't mentally account for why it would konk out when pulling a u-turn.

[RocketUSA]

I went to release the pressure on the schrader valve, and it just kinda went fftt, really low pressure. I pumped it up, the way you suggested, and a little gas came out, like it rose about an inch. Nowhere near what I'd expect, say 35-40psi, like out of a bike tire or something.

[RocketUSA]

The latest: I get gas shooting out about 12 inches when I depress the valve stem. I also, at my mechanics suggestion, sprayed some starter fluid right into the throttle body, with no luck. I'm gonna go buy a fuel pressure tester.

Argh!

[Selectron]

I'm wondering if fuel sloshed around in the tank when you made the u-turn and caused something odd to happen back there. I have no valid reason for suggesting it, but I'd remove the gas filler cap and then put it back on again.

[mightymoose_22]

You seem to have fuel pressure and you have verified spark. The ignition seems to be working as the engine does crank and spark is verified... it should at least be sputtering when you try to start.
The next thing you need to verify is compression.

You can also pull a spark plug or two after cranking and see if they appear wet from fuel entering the chamber.

[mightymoose_22]

Also, if you have some help, with the engine cranking you can listen with a stethoscope to make sure the injectors are working. You should be able to hear them clicking.