Tire Rim Corrosion - partial solution

[sad-lumina-owner]

I was feeling pretty bitter about the ugly mess my rims were in.

It appeared that when the tire guys put the tire-balancing weights on the outside (viewing side) of the rim, a heavy reaction and corrosion ensued.

Dissimilar metals react badly, especially when exposed to water, air and salt.

As it happens, these rims are (I assume) an aluminium alloy, and presumably fairly expensive. However, they were (originally?) coated on the shiney unpainted surface with a heavy coating of some kind of polyurethane, to prevent corrosion and discoloring.

I wish I had a "before" picture to show you, but I didn't think to do that.

Near the weights (and previous weight positions) there was what appears as a white/yellow/dirty guck, something like snot, partly crystalline, and partly mush, similar to what you'd find on a corroded battery terminal. This was my clue (as well as location) as to the cause (the lead weights).

This corrosion apparently got a toehold where the plastic polyurethane coating was inevitably chipped when the weights were bashed on.

I was seriously thinking along the lines of buying new (used) rims, when by chance I took a wirebrush attachment on my powerdrill to them as an experiiment.

A couple of hours later, I had almost a brand-new look to the rims.

Most of the corrosion comes off easy, but you have to scrub out the underlying stain hard with a wirebrush attachment. The thick plastic coating elsewhere (where its good) you don't want to shatter or peel off, so I used a razor knife to cut it back so that the grinder would stop chipping it at a sensible point.

The result is you can get the original bright aluminium color back (near as damnit), but now you have the problem of re-coating the exposed aluminium (this will corrode again exposed to air).

I applied some ignition protector as a temporary fix. I will buy some outdoor polyurethane at some point and repaint the rims, perhaps after I touchup the black paint inserts.

By the way, the black painted inserts can be improved immensely by simply scrubbing them with a cloth covered in paint thinner, to remove dirt and oil.

Here is a look at the result of cleaning up the damage, with a rough scouring using the wirebrush attachment, and after spraying on some ignition protector (all I had to hand). I also used vinyl protector on the tire sidewalls, and the result was almost a showroom look to the wheels.





Although its not a 'professional' job, the improvement is about 90% over what was. I may eventually sand them all down and refinish them, now that I know how easy that is.

[Airjer_]

Looks like those wheels are in ruff shape in general! The tire guys are just putting the weight where there supposed to go. Keeping the wheel clean will help greatly with this problem. I had a 88 prelude with aluminum wheels. I kept it clean all the time. Hand washes in the summer touch less washes in the winter. Never had an issue with the wheels corroding inside or out.

[sad-lumina-owner]

Originally Posted by Airjer_

Looks like those wheels are in ruff shape in general! The tire guys are just putting the weight where there supposed to go. Keeping the wheel clean will help greatly with this problem. I had a 88 prelude with aluminum wheels. I kept it clean all the time. Hand washes in the summer touch less washes in the winter. Never had an issue with the wheels corroding inside or out.

Unfortunately the "tire guys" AREN'T putting the weight where its supposed to go. When attaching the weight chips the protective finish and badly corrodes the aluminium/magnesium alloy, then this is NOT how its supposed to be done. You can attach the weight to EITHER side of a wheel, and putting it where it doesn't show will prevent damage to expensive wheels.

Secondly, "handwashes". This corrosion could never be dealt with by washing, even scrubbing with a brush. I had to grind it off. It should not be part of "normal maintenance" to have to sand down and refinish a mag wheel.

The fact is, weights should go on the inside of the wheel on expensive mag rims. Every mechanic should know this, and every "tire guy" should be told this. And those who do it wrong should pay for the refinishing required to fix the damage.

[Airjer_]

Originally Posted by sad-lumina-owner

Dissimilar metals react badly, especially when exposed to water, air and salt.

Good lord! Keep them clean and the problems you experienced are minimalized. I live in Minnesota and know first hand what the winter does to a car! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at those pictures and see that 1. those are not "expensive" wheels and 2. those wheels show years of abuse and neglect! So lets not rag on the tire guys because I'm sure they didn't put the other 8,000 chips in your wheels (those are just the ones I can count in the photos).

I kept/keep my factory aluminum wheels clean and I pound the weights on the inside and the outside. I had over 250,000 miles on the Honda and they looked like brand new!

[sad-lumina-owner]

Originally Posted by Airjer_

Good lord!

Keep them clean and the problems you experienced are minimalized. I live in Minnesota and know first hand what the winter does to a car!

We don't need to personify and blame "winter" for a botched balancing job.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to look at those pictures and see that
...

2. those wheels show years of abuse and neglect!

Its not years of 'abuse and neglect' (the blame the victim syndrome again).

The owner and driver of a car has a reasonable expectation that the products are designed (and properly installed) so that they can survive well in the environments for which they are intended.

On the on hand, you are only looking at one wheel. This wheel is different than the others, in that its 'plastic coating' has disintegrated in a pocked pattern. As a scientist I strongly suspect that this disintegration has nothing to do with 'abuse and neglect' but rather deterioration of the plastic due to UV radiation from the sun over time.

The other three wheels have no damage at all on the majority of the wheel surface, but only bad corrosion where the lead weights were hammered on. And by the way its easy to see that the plastic coating was chipped in places where the hammer missed the weight and simply smashed the rim.

The only 'abuse and neglect' visible on these wheels is that of the installer of the balancing weights, both in their placement and in their careless installation.

I can tell the 4th wheel is a replacement from a different time and place, because I had to paint the black part in myself to get it to match the others.

This replacement wheel could be any age or vintage of manufacture (even third party) and have had any history before it was put on this car (before I bought it certainly).

So lets not rag on the tire guys because I'm sure they didn't put the other 8,000 chips in your wheels (those are just the ones I can count in the photos).

Again, there ARE no 'chips' in the wheel surface, as if those could have been caused by the driver or owner, and therefore constitute 'abuse and neglect'. And it is ridiculous to claim that 'regular washing' of the wheel rim could have avoided these in any case, whatever their cause.

Let us suppose the wheel was formerly mounted on an offroad stockcar and was driven for 5 years only on gravel roads. Perhaps then we could say in some sense that the driver/owner was at fault for a gradual buildup of chipping or pockmarks.

But even in this case, it would have nothing at all to do with the damage incurred by improper installation of the lead balancing weights.

I kept/keep my factory aluminum wheels clean and I pound the weights on the inside and the outside. I had over 250,000 miles on the Honda and they looked like brand new!

I am quite happy for you and your Honda. But your clinical experience cannot reflect any statistical truths. It is only anecdotal in nature. I doubt keeping your wheels clean would have anything to do with reducing the number of 'chips' due to bouncing stones, or corrosion due to an interaction with other metals.

It may be that there are other scientific factors at work here.

For instance, electrical static buildup on a car body might create a corrosive situation where dissimilar metals are in contact, and this might vary widely between car models (Lumina and Honda for instance) or even environments (Minnesota vs. Canada).

There is no reason to believe others should have your good luck, and that if they don't it must be a case of 'abuse and neglect'.

[Airjer_]

Alright, when you come out of the lab and step into the real world and mount and balance a couple of thousand tires on aluminum wheels and you'll start to see the difference in the way they are cared for in a hurry! And right after that you will notice a correlation between the look of the vehicle and the look of the wheel. The environment has a huge impact on the longevity of aluminum wheels. Caring for them properly will very greatly depending on the environment you subject them to.

This wheel is different than the others, in that its 'plastic coating' has disintegrated in a pocked pattern. As a scientist I strongly suspect that this disintegration has nothing to do with 'abuse and neglect' but rather deterioration of the plastic due to UV radiation from the sun over time.

So you pick the worst looking wheel out of the four with no before pictures or pictures with the wheel weight in place. then say that the wheel has some kind of defect? Thats not scientific thats trying to avoid responsibility and passing blame! It looks like the pitting was under the wheel weight where guess what sand and salt collect. Over time if the wheel weights are left in place due to the lack of balancing or the need to balance the sand/salt will rub its way through the protective coating. Washing/pressure washing these areas will greatly reduce this from happening!!!

If you don't want them there than ask them to use tape weights! otherwise the fault lies with the manufacturer and the environment there driven in not the tire guys!

Are there "bad" tire guys out there, absolutley!! But it gets a little old hearing all the "bad" stuff when the "good" things are never mentioned. Even thought they far outnumber the "bad" things.

[sad-lumina-owner]

Originally Posted by Airjer_

Alright, when you come out of the lab and step into the real world and mount and balance a couple of thousand tires on aluminum wheels and you'll start to see the difference in the way they are cared for in a hurry! And right after that you will notice a correlation between the look of the vehicle and the look of the wheel. The environment has a huge impact on the longevity of aluminum wheels. Caring for them properly will very greatly depending on the environment you subject them to.

Agreed.

So you pick the worst looking wheel out of the four with no before pictures or pictures with the wheel weight in place. then say that the wheel has some kind of defect? Thats not scientific thats trying to avoid responsibility and passing blame!

I really regret not taking pictures of the wheel in its original condition, as I stated from the beginning. This was an off the cuff experiment: I had the drill and wirebrush attachment in my hand, as I was doing some bodywork. I leaned over and tried it on the wheels, and was so happy at the result that I continued all the way round the car.

I had not intended to take any pictures at all at this time. That thought occurred later in the day, when someone here requested photos of the rust to the unibody, in order to assess a repair strategy.

There was no planned operation to vilify 'tire guys'.

It looks like the pitting was under the wheel weight where guess what sand and salt collect. Over time if the wheel weights are left in place due to the lack of balancing or the need to balance the sand/salt will rub its way through the protective coating. Washing/pressure washing these areas will greatly reduce this from happening!!!

I think you are right in that washing away salt in particular might help to slow corrosion damage. But as said before, This wouldn't be an issue if the weights were on the other side of the wheel.

If you don't want them there than ask them to use tape weights! otherwise the fault lies with the manufacturer and the environment there driven in not the tire guys!

I guess for now this is the owner's best strategy. I would prefer that 'tire guys' automatically looked at the wheel and car, and made intelligent choices without having to consult the owner on something so simple.

Looks as though the consumer must protect himself. No one else is going to.

Are there "bad" tire guys out there, absolutley!! But it gets a little old hearing all the "bad" stuff when the "good" things are never mentioned. Even thought they far outnumber the "bad" things.

You have to remember that a 'repair/advice' forum by its very nature will be mostly about 'bad' stuff.

Nobody is going to post a thread about how something didn't go wrong.

Just like a doctor's office will have mostly sick people, and a newspaper will report mostly bad news, a repair forum will mostly focus on things WRONG with a car or the people maintaining it.

If you want praise for cars, or mechanics, or dealers, read reviews, or advertisements. Car makers spend millions blowing their own horn, and plenty of glowing reviews are available praising products and services (many probably faked).

[Airjer_]

Some good always comes out of a good debate! Truth is I just like a good discussion and when the person on the other side can hold his own, like yourself, I enjoy it even more!!

The last thing to remember is that those tires are made to accept weights in this manner. They come from the factory with weights on the outside. Some manufacturers have wised up to this and have wheels without lips on the outside so that tape weights have to be used! The tire guys are just doing what the manufacturer has given them the ability to due!

My point about the "bad" is that its always my mechanic screwed this up. More often than not its not "their" mechanic but some guy down the road that has a garage that was convenient to pull into when there was a problem. Not knowing the full credentials of the business or the people under the hood or even knowledge of what needs to be repaired they are all to eager to pull the trigger and have them fix it right away. Only to find out that just because they have a garage doesn't mean they are a reputable business, just because its a national chain doesn't mean its better, and just because the guy under the hood has a tool box full of the best tools doesn't make him a mechanic/technician. Don't even get me started about the "how much they charged me, there a rip off" discussion.

Truth is waiting until there is a problem to find a good reputable shop is the worst time!!

Its been good talkin to you SLO!!!