1995 Saturn SC2 smoking at idle and missing

[fritcr]

I bought a 95 SC2 with some problems LOL. The main problem is that is misses at idle and starts to smoke really badly. If you get it going you can drive it and the smoke stops but back to an idle and then it starts back up. It is blue smoke..Oil. I am assuming that something has happened to one of the valves. It does have a DOHC engine. Other than that...I don't know much about Saturns at all. I'm good with cars and can work on stuff pretty good but have never been around a Saturn so any advice would be great!
Rob

[RC1488]

Remove and replace the ECTS. You have two replace the one with the 2-wire connector.

Do A FULL tune up on the car. This includes, spark plugs, and especially the PCV valve. The PCV is the only item on the car that should rattle

If needed I can post a tune up list.

If this does not help, I sugges a MMO soak of the cylinders. Ive just recently posted instructions for this, but can make it a seperate thread if needed. Good luck!

[fritcr]

I don't know what a ETCS is and what does MMO mean? Are you saying you don't think I will have to remove the head on this thing? That would be awesome! I'll do a search and see if I can find hits on here for ETCS and MMO in a few. Any help would be great. I can't afford to take this thing somewhere to have the work done so I will doing it all myself as time permits. It is a spare car right now. I have a Grand Prix I drive daily.
Thanks much for responding!
Rob (I love AF...I have fixed so many problems myself with others help!)

[RC1488]

Engine should not need to be taken apart. oil being burned is from a stuck PCV valve along with stuck oil rings. A MMO Soack (murder myster oil) has had great results for loosening the oil rings. SOmetimes more than one soak was needed however.

ECTS (engine coolant temperature sensor)...youll see it mentioned here MANY time. 13mm deep dish socket is all you need.

Again, a full tune up of the car is a good thing also. good luck!

[fritcr]

Thanks much! I'm in the process of signing up for the saturanalia site and there is all kinds of info there on the MMO soak and the ETCS thing or whatever. I will do all of this and give her a good tune up.
Do you think this would cause the miss fire problem though?
Rob

[RC1488]

As i said a full tune up is needed. This includes a good cleaning of some parts. The EGR and Throttle body are the important ones. Mis fires and rough idles are usually cuased by a dirty EGR valve. A good cleaning of this and you should be good to go.

Youll also read that the ECTS is vital to engine management. It controls MANY sub systems of the car including fuel/air mixtures and ignition timing. Saturnalia...thats saturnspot.com correct? You should go there, we need more members Saturnfans.com is a hog haha Good people over there tho!

[fritcr]

I guess it actually is saturnfans.com I didn't realize it. Anyway, I did the MMO soak last night. I don't live near a Saturn dealer so I might get the parts online. I'll get the ETCS thing and I can clean up the EGR and TB myself. I have done that on my other 3 cars already. I'm still concerned about the miss fire. It sounds "funny" when the car turns over....like it has a dead cylinder. I also noticed that one cylinder had oil on top of the piston last night before I put the MMO down it. Still thinking I might have something wrong with one of the valves. Is that common with these engines?
Rob

[RC1488]

Your missing is probally from one of the items mentioned before. Especially the ECTS, as it controls manyyyyyy sub systems of the car.

Yes the DOHC usually have valves go more than anything else. however, from personal experience, youll know when that happens. Theres no wondering at all

was there oil in the spark plug hole before removing the plug? Sometimes oil pools there and then dribbles down to the top of the cylinder when the plug is removed. If you think about it, woouldnt the oil burn when the engine is running? Thus, very little oil, much less than what you described, would be there

saturnparts.com is an online dealer btw.

If replacing the PCV go dealer only for this part.

Do fix/replace the items and see if that helps. Good luck!

[fritcr]

You say there is no mistake when a valve goes. What does it do? The lady said it was running fine one day then suddenly it started missing and smoking. Seems if it was a valve it be an over time thing unless something is broken or stuck in there. hmmm....
I didn't see much oil in the spark plug holes before I removed the plugs so I don't "think" much if any oil went down the holes when I took the plugs out. HOWEVER...the goober that I bought it from didn't even have the plugs hand tight...they were ALL loose in the spark plug holes. Kinda weird...surpirzed one didn't blow out on the way home. LOL
The ladys husband said he had just pulled all of the plugs out to look at them.

[RC1488]

When a valve goes that means a piece of it broke. Smoke is all you see out the rear view mirror and the engine will barely make it up the smallest hill haha

If you really want to eliminate the valves as the issue, do a compression test. That will tell you 100 percent what the issue is.

[fritcr]

Well peeps, I have more info on my poor old sc2 now. I did the mmo soak. Put a new air filter in it. I also did a spark test and all 4 are firing good. I did a compression test and OH NO!!! the # 3 cylinder has NO compression at all. It is dead. I did a wet test...(put some oil down it right??) and that made very little difference. The needle just barely moved. #1, 2 and 4 have around 170 - 175 lbs compression. I took the valve cover off and the cam looks fine and the lobe on the cam looks fine. I'm guessing I have a valve burnt really bad?? Does anyone have anything else I can try or does my head need to come off? Does anyone know if there are some instructions/pics I can download to help me remove the head. I'm mostly worried about the sprokets and chain of course. Tips/tricks? Thanks so much for everyone's help!
Rob

[RC1488]

......my only question is how long was the car sitting before you got it. Reason being i had an engine sitting for about a year outside inthe car. once i took it out and examined it the compression was 0 also. 2 mmo soaks later and the rings freed up and after driving it a little, the smoke stopped, and compression is back to normal. Since this is a new car, its possible this happened to you also. Again its not definite.

To remove the head, the timing chain has to come off. easiest if engine comes out of the car. I can write a how-to for this if you want. Actually im going to be doing the operation on wed night so if you can wait till the endo f the week, ill have a how-to with pictures.

Taking the head off is really the only way to tell if its the valves or not. Ive heard that a Leak down test sometimes can be used, but how that test works and what the results tell you im not sure of.

[RC1488]

"The neat thing about a leakage test (as opposed to a compression test) is that it’s faster and easier to figure out where the pressure is going. If you hear air coming out of the tailpipe, it indicates a leaky exhaust valve. Air coming out of the throttle body or carburetor would point to a leaky intake valve. Air coming out of the breather vent or PCV valve fitting would tell you the rings and/or cylinders are worn"

Id try a leak down test

[fritcr]

I don't really know how or have the equipment to do a leak down test. The lady I bought the car from said that it had sit for a year in the back yard...however she said it started missing before she parked it. I did the mmo soak and and let it run some then did the compression test. I also drove it home about 60 miles when I bought it running on 3 cyl. lol
The oil is BLACK and thin...nasty nasty. I need to change it but I figured if the head has to come off I would have to just change it again. I have not driven it since I got it home.

[RC1488]

A garage will do the test pretty cheaply. Might be worth the money so you know exactly what your in for