Tranny fluid low and rough shifting?

[Gems]

I have noticed recently from time to time, when I first run the car in the morning, I think I feel some "not so smooth" shifts going from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd at slow speeds... This is accompanied by a sound from the engine bay that I can only describe as a slight whining noise in concert with the engine RPM... If I shut the car off and start it up again, or even shut it off and leave it parked for a few hours and then run it again, the shifts are smooth and there is no whining noise...

I just checked the tranny fluid level, with a warmed engine, at idle, and the level is barely to the first little hole in the dip stick... The fluid looks clean and has no burnt smell...

Is the tranny fluid low?... Should I add some and how much should I add?... What kind of tranny fluid should I get, the dipstick says Dexron 3...

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by Gems

I have noticed recently from time to time, when I first run the car in the morning, I think I feel some "not so smooth" shifts going from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd at slow speeds... This is accompanied by a sound from the engine bay that I can only describe as a slight whining noise in concert with the engine RPM... If I shut the car off and start it up again, or even shut it off and leave it parked for a few hours and then run it again, the shifts are smooth and there is no whining noise...

I just checked the tranny fluid level, with a warmed engine, at idle, and the level is barely to the first little hole in the dip stick... The fluid looks clean and has no burnt smell...

Is the tranny fluid low?... Should I add some and how much should I add?... What kind of tranny fluid should I get, the dipstick says Dexron 3...

The transmission when at normal operating temp should be at the middle of the crosshatch area...add to get the fluid in this area.... when cold very cold you will notice a ruff shift if the fluid is low this is what is expected...


cold fluid is harder to flow/pump ...when did you replace your fluid /filter???? if not within 30,000mi time to replace ...


when the fluid looks bad smells bad this to me means transmission is gonna need to be rebuilt soon....you replace fluid to prevent all of this unnecessary expense.....

[Gems]

Thanks for your response...

As I said the dipstick shows a level barely at the bottom of the cross-hatched area... So it is on the low side and I will buy some Dexron tranny fluid today and carefully top it off...

When you say cold fluid can result in rough shifts, remember it is the summer time so even cold fluid is at about 70 degrees F first thing in the morning...

I've owned the car starting at about 30K miles... It now has 73K miles and I have never changed the tranny fluid or filter... So I guess it's time to do that... The fluid I see on the dipstick looks clear/red and has no smell...

The whining noise coupled with the funny shifts has me perplexed...

[Gems]

I topped up the tranny fluid today with Dexron 6... It took about 1pt (16 oz) to get the fluid into the mid/upper range of the hatched area on the tranny dipstick...

But of course today the tranny shifted nice and smooth both before I added the fluid and after I topped it up... And no whining noise either... So I'll take her for a test drive tomorrow morning after she sits all night in the driveway...

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by Gems

I topped up the tranny fluid today with Dexron 6... It took about 1pt (16 oz) to get the fluid into the mid/upper range of the hatched area on the tranny dipstick...

But of course today the tranny shifted nice and smooth both before I added the fluid and after I topped it up... And no whining noise either... So I'll take her for a test drive tomorrow morning after she sits all night in the driveway...

the levelness of the vehicle is important when checking...also because the temps are in the 70deg f range when the engine is hot /normal temp the fluid should be in the upper crosshatch area...in the winter 20deg f should be in the lower area...when hot engine...

the level will effect shift ...

because the vehicle was purchased at 30,000mi this most always means the fluid has never been replaced ... this could mean trouble...



with this type of situation do not do any flushing proceedures with the transmission fluid servicing...replace filter clean and reinstall pan....

[Gems]

Originally Posted by j cAT

because the vehicle was purchased at 30,000mi this most always means the fluid has never been replaced ... this could mean trouble...

with this type of situation do not do any flushing proceedures with the transmission fluid servicing...replace filter clean and reinstall pan....

I've heard others say NOT to do any kind of flushing procedure...

So you recommend simply dropping the pan and replacing the pan fluid and filter only??...

What is wrong with a flushing procedure??

[BNaylor]

I would not get a flush. Two types either full power or fluid exchange. Just do a pan drop service, replace ATF about 7-7.5 quarts and install a new screen filter. If the problem persists then get it scanned with a scanner capable of pulling up GM extended or transmission DTCs and see if a P1811 (max adapt, long shift) is there in history. Does not trigger the check engine light. This DTC will command maximum line pressure, disable shift adapts and cause the whining sound. Most P1811 DTCs or your problem is caused by a flaky pressure control solenoid (PCS) but not all of them. Worn out 1-2, 2-3 clutch packs, 1-2, 2-3 shift accumulator or other internal issues can cause the problem in addition to the PCS. The PCM checks shift timing. If greater than .65 seconds then the DTC should set.

[Gems]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

I would not get a flush. Two types either full power or fluid exchange. Just do a pan drop service, replace ATF about 7-7.5 quarts and install a new screen filter. If the problem persists then get it scanned with a scanner capable of pulling up GM extended or transmission DTCs and see if a P1811 (max adapt, long shift) is there in history. Does not trigger the check engine light. This DTC will command maximum line pressure, disable shift adapts and cause the whining sound. Most P1811 DTCs or your problem is caused by a flaky pressure control solenoid (PCS) but not all of them. Worn out 1-2, 2-3 clutch packs, 1-2, 2-3 shift accumulator or other internal issues can cause the problem in addition to the PCS. The PCM checks shift timing. If greater than .65 seconds then the DTC should set.

Thanks for this excellent information!... Does the fact that I "think" I am hearing this whining noise eliminate the possibility that a simple pan drop service will fix this??

[BNaylor]

Bob, flip a coin. It may or may not. However, it is cheaper trying that then immediately getting the PCS replaced which will probably cost $600 or more with part at a repair shop. Plus people are getting repeat PCS and similar issues even after PCS replacement. Checkout the thread below which just about dissects the issue and explains it in detail. Also, covers use of Seafoam tranny additive as a last resort. Plus there is a possible fix that may work without having to spend the big bucks. If you have any questions about the workaround fix let me know via PM messaging.

Click here

[Gems]

Awesome....... Thanks......

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by Gems

I've heard others say NOT to do any kind of flushing procedure...

So you recommend simply dropping the pan and replacing the pan fluid and filter only??...

What is wrong with a flushing procedure??

when you drop the trans pan the debris on the bottom and the filter condition usually reveals whats going on//... also this is due any way....If you bring into a dealer to secure codes if any ,,,, for there fluid replacement... it will be hundreds of dollars of cost..


drop pan lets go for the simple fix....first..





flushing is bad and the older the transmission the more problems encountered... the torque converter and transmission has many passageways and pockets where debris are trapped the flushing loosens the deposits, then as you are operating the vehicle these loosened deposits foul the solenoids and small passageways...creating severe problems..

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by Gems

I topped up the tranny fluid today with Dexron 6... It took about 1pt (16 oz) to get the fluid into the mid/upper range of the hatched area on the tranny dipstick...

..

Bob since you mentioned it technically the newer Dexron VI (6) and the older Dexron III should not be mixed. The Dex VI is made from base stocks and special additives to meet the GM Dexron VI specification. It is a synthetic blend.

Nothing wrong with using Dex VI in an under 2006 model GM car with the 4T65E autotransaxle. I switched over with excellent results. The 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts have never been smoother.

Just to be safe I would run the Seafoam through, then do a pan drop. Install a new screen filter and then resupply with the Dex VI. You can get it at Walmart under the Supertech brand for around $3 per qt. See pic below. You will need around 8 qt. The system should hold around 7.5 qts with a pan drop service. Use an AC Delco TF304 screen filter which is the same as the SPX/Filtran brand since Filtran makes the Delco screen filter.



Note: Obviously after a pan drop and switching over to Dex VI there will still be residual Dexron III but I had no issues and the reason why I used the cheaper Wally World Dexron VI. I plan on doing a subsequent pan drop service but I installed a pan drain plug to make it easier.

[j cAT]

[quote=BNaylor]Bob since you mentioned it technically the newer Dexron VI (6) and the older Dexron III should not be mixed. The Dex VI is made from base stocks and special additives to meet the GM Dexron VI specification. It is a synthetic blend.

I disagree with your statement....I have read that these fluids are compatable....obviously any vehicle designed to use dextron VI must continue this type fluid.

I have used this fluid with other older transmissions [GM] calling for dextron III with the now newer and also only available fluid to use with no negitive results...

Once again it clearly states the fluids are compatible...but this is with the brands I use .... wallymart may be different as I did not use those types...

If you could please show and direct me to where it states that this should not be done....

[BNaylor]

Show me where it says mixing the two is recommended or an acceptable practice and there will be no future issues including liability. Even the GM dealers are removing the Dex III with proper fluid exchange equipment in GM cars 2006 and under in which owners desire to switchover to Dex VI. They do not mix the two nor do they use Dex VI to top off a car with Dex III in it. Of course the two can be mixed since many of us have done that including me with no bad results but that doesn't mean that is proper maintenance practice. I have done 6 conversions to date. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a new superior ATF with improved characteristics over the older Dexron III. If you compare the two fluids they smell different, feel different and have different coloring. The same would be applicable if you mix regular dino motor oil with synthetic motor oil. Why would you do that? It defeats the purpose. The bottom line is you have to use common sense. What I stated is my opinion which I am entitled to whether you agree with it or not.

The Walmart Supertech Dex-VI is the real deal like like GM branded Dexron VI and Mobile Dexron VI counterparts but a a reduced cost. All it says on the label is GM approved for use of where a Dexron VI product is recommended. Also, suitable for Dexron II and Dexron III applications.

[j cAT]

[quote=BNaylor] What I stated is my opinion which I am entitled to whether you agree with it or not.quote]

as I thought this is totally your opinion......

I read the instructions and guide on the container as to whether this can be mixed with the older dextron III....


my experience is that it is not necessary to flush out the transmission just to insure that all is dextron VI...


now if the fluid is damaged then this means a complete cleaning of all transfluid lines and torque converter...