95 Neon Starting problem

[boling45]

I have a 95 Neon that has a starting problem, I first replaced the fuel filter but that didn't fix it, when you go to start it the engine will crank and turn over a good 10 to 15 seconds before it will start. I can hear the fuel pump come on when I first turn the key on, once it starts it runs great. it will do this with the engine cold or hot , could it be the CAM POSITION SENSOR ? what could the problem be ? please help !!!

[das2123]

Have you checked the fuel pressure at the rail? Should be 49 psi.

[boling45]

Originally Posted by das2123

Have you checked the fuel pressure at the rail? Should be 49 psi.

No I have not but I will do that, thanks for that, also Someone had removed the ck engine light bulb. I put a bulb in it and was able to get a few codes. but one of the codes read off fuel pump sensor, but I will ck the pressure, thanks again for that,,,,

[das2123]

What were the codes?

[boling45]

Originally Posted by das2123

What were the codes?

12, 42, 44, 24, 22, 55, thanks for asking,,

[boling45]

Originally Posted by boling45

12, 42, 44, 24, 22, 55, thanks for asking,,

Update as of Mon night,,, After working on this thing off and on all day I finally figured out what the culpret was. first off I kept thinking about the fuel pump relay, someone had told me that they thought that was t, I went and got all the relays for the relay box, I bought use ones, that didn't do it, finlly as the day went on I had to spray starting fluid in it to get it started, finally I got to thinking about that throttle position sensor so I unplagged it, then every time I turned the key on the fuel pump would buzz and the car starts in a couple of seconds. I wanted to post this so if anyone else ever runs in to this problem this is something to consider,

[das2123]

I think 42 is for the ASD/Fuel pump relay.

[Moonzuk]

Hello to everyone.
I just put everything back together, refill all the fluids, new fuel filter as well.
Hooked up battery, turned key - click from starter (I suppose) and dead silence.

All controls are showing, but brake lights are ON all the time and emergency blinkers are not working. So in order to turn stop lights off I have to turn emergency blinkers lever to the left.

I am pretty sure that all the connectors are in their places. I've checked fuses - all look good and no missing one.
And the codes are 1 25 5

Any suggestion?

Thanks

[denisond3]

Moonzuk: The matter of the brakes lights being on until you move the turn signal lever would lead me to believe its a problem with the multifunction switch behind the steering wheel.
The matter of the starter not working is not one I would think of in connection with a multifunction switch being bad.
Here is a thing to try. Turn the ignition on, and have a short wire you can put to run between the heavy cable from the battery at the starter, and the small terminal on the starter that 'engages' it to spin. Do this with the car in neutral of course, since it may start right up. If so, your starter isnt the problem, but you have something in the circuit that is preventing it from working. There are a couple of 'interlocks' for safety. Such as, the starter wont work if the neutral safety switch doesnt think the car is in neutral or park. I think there are some cars where your foot has to be on the brake pedal for the starter to work.

[Moonzuk]

Thanks denisond,

U're right. The brake switch has gone, replaced, lights are ok. Tested starter at Advanced Auto - they "suggested" to change cos someone(?) re-assembled it(???), obviously before me.

Ok, $167. No start, receiving 43 code. Ok, pulled to mechanics (very friendly), they said that #4 has no pressure and suggested that I installed timing belt on wrong marks.
Ok, push the thing back into garage, opened and ... (yes, someone may call me some names - I deserved). What happened is that (again) someone before me painted white marks on both pulleys so when I was installing I did not pay close attention to manufactured embedding marks but aligned everything to these painted marks.

So took both pulleys under the lights and see these marks. Ok, putted back together, rotated 6-... times - all manufactured marks are finally aligned accordingly. The missing point in a book was that when you counterclockwising the crank pulley 3 notches BTDC and then back it 1/2 BTDC is for A REASON. But Christler did not explained why.
So being stupid or not I figured when you place the belt teethes it became loose in between waterpump and cam pulley or waterpump and crank pulley. No matter how many times one will shift the belt on pulley's teeth it will be always loos just a bit. Then manual simply says: to adjust some loose rotate clockwise to tension the belt.

Ok, and finally they said to keep all the marks aligned.
Sorry, aligned to "mark-to-mark" or align to that last step with 1/2 BTDC???

Again, may be it is me only but I am in UI Design for 9 years but this explanation is very confusing.

I've had almost deeply sexual satisfaction by rotating crank pulley and checking how these marks are aligned over and over again.
They recommended 6 full cycles, so I did about 12-14 and hardly stopped in tears. They still up their marks!!!

Placed the battery, wire to my truck (in case) and turned ignition ON ...
Sweet Lord Multifaced Blue Krishna!!!
I received an error 37.
Pull battery out, disconnected fans, re-connected fans, ignition - ON, ... error 42. I've replaced both relays (fuel pump and ADS), it still showing error 42. All fuses are ok.:banghe ad:

If there is a God, he is a witness, I am law-obaiding citizen, never burned a cross, never humiliated drunk zen-buddist monk, always dancing the right dances on corresponding moon fazes, never ..., well He knows all of that....
I start thinking of some pieceful places somewhere deep in Vietnam or Malaisia where no roads and/or no Dodge Neons'95 at least for sure to relocate ...

My next step would be to call "DeLaila" radio host to talk me out of that nice manila rope and polished stenley still hook that so friendly stick out of my garage ceiling ...

Is anybody out there to help?

[denisond3]

Moonzuk: You might want to start a new thread, to discuss the problem with your own Neon. Anyone starting to read this thread from the top learns about a Neon that cranks over for 10 to 15 seconds before starting.......
I think you said your Neon is not turning over, that is; it isnt cranking over when you turn the ignition key to the start position? Anyway, please restate the problem you have now.
And dont think of hanging yourself. Several times in my life I have been ready to weep with frustration because I wasnt able to fix something - but I almost always got it fixed in the end, even when I had to do the job 3 or more times before I got it right. So the frustration is normal.
Be sure to say what year your Neon is, whether automatic or standard transmission, and whether single overhead cam (SOHC) or double overhead cam - (DOHC).
An engine runs if it has Compression, Ignition (at the right moment) and a burnable mixture of Fuel in the combustion chamber. Aside from checking for spark at each plug wire (although you wont know if its happening at the proper moment, it most likely is), and checking for compression, you can have someone crank the engine over while you squire starting fluid into the throttle body. It should at least fire-up briefly.
Your Neon has a wiring harness that runs around the engine, from the injectors over to the PCM, and continuing on past the camshaft position sensor, down behind the motor and across under the exhaust system to the crank position sensor, alternator, and downstream oxygen sensor. This wiring harness gets damaged by heat, back behind the motor. It then can cause hard starting, non-staring, misfiring, etc., because the PCM isnt getting a good signal to tell it that the crankshaft and camshaft are turning. I (sort of) repaired that harness when I had the motor out of mine, because a new one from the Dodge/Plymouth dealer was over $700 a couple of years ago! That wiring harness is enough of a failure item that some aftermarket company is going to begin manufacturing them someday. So it wont hurt to go into auto parts places and ask about it.
Now two years have gone by, and our Neon is misfiring a lot on the highway. I think that harness has continued to deteriorate, and I have been looking in all the local junkyards within 200 miles of me - - but what I find are Neons whose wiring harness is already missing, even if the motor is still in the car. I also go into auto parts places and ask about the wiring harness. I am hoping this will help to create a demand for the part.
You can also buy a manual for your car from Haynes or Chilton publishing, at auto parts stores. I got the manual published by Chrysler, via ebay. I have read every page of the manual, some of the sections more than once: because you never entirey forget the things you read in the manual.