Timing chain broke on 3.9L...

[schpenxel]

So.. secondary timing chain on the drivers side broke (tensioner looks like it broke, piece went between the chain+sprocket and ripped the chain in half).

Good news is all metal is accounted for so there's no pieces of chain floating around or anything. Bad news is both exhaust valves, on I believe it is cylinder 7, are bent.. the springs are still compressed even though I have the cam off.

My main question here is there any guide for pulling the motor out of this thing? I'm assuming I should pull the engine to fix this and not try to pull the head off while it's still in the car... any feedback on that? Lastly, I am also assuming it's possible to pull the engine from the top which I may be wrong about. What do you guys think??

Thanks!

[shorod]

Welcome to the forum!

Fortunately for most (unfortunately for you) this repair doesn't seem to be too common, therefore I don't recall seeing anything detailing the proceedure for pulling the engine or the heads. I am basically just responding so you don't think you're being ignored.

I suspect however that the manual will suggest pulling the engine from underneath with the transmission still attached.

What year is your LS V8? I may be able to provide you with an exerpt from the service manual for this job.

-Rod

[schpenxel]

Thanks for the response.

It is a 2001. After talking to a few of my friends that are mechanics they're pretty much telling me not to waste my time and just part it out on ebay or something instead. They think chance of a piston being damaged is extremely high on this engine and in the end I'll come out better selling it in pieces.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do.. if you could send me that part of the service manual I'd appreciate it.

[Quik_LS]

correct - the dealer pulls the motor from underneath - dropping the cross-member with the trannie and motor. The drivetrain is loaded from underneath at the factory.

You can pull it out the engine bay, carefully, slowly - but will have to pull most of the front out - rads, ...etc

you can only purchase a loaded block from the dealer - however - there are plenty of engines on e-bay, wreckers, ...etc.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by schpenxel

Thanks for the response.

It is a 2001. After talking to a few of my friends that are mechanics they're pretty much telling me not to waste my time and just part it out on ebay or something instead. They think chance of a piston being damaged is extremely high on this engine and in the end I'll come out better selling it in pieces.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do.. if you could send me that part of the service manual I'd appreciate it.

I have the service manual for the 2002 model year LS which should be pretty similar to your 2001. If you private message me with the request AND an e-mail address for you that can accept PDF attachments, I'll send what I find your way.

-Rod

[schpenxel]

Thanks to shorod for the service manual.. I'm going to start pulling it apart tomorrow after work. We've had some terrible rain here the last few days (but needed it)

[dadsyellowgoat]

Hello I am new to the forum but have a very similar problem to this thread so I thought I would continue it. First off "schpenxel" what did you ultimately do.

I have a 2001 Lincoln LS with a 3.9 V8. Trying to start it the engine spins over like a bad timing chain. The car has run flawless till this time about 68,000 miles on it. Surprised at this mileage this would happen. Is this somewhat common on this engine. Can this happen without causing piston valve damage. Cranked the engine watched the pulley turned very rapidly without any resistance from compression. Engine cranks as though the plugs are out.

I have begun to disassemble the pass side valve cover is off 3 of 4 plug wells large amount of oil. The chain is intact but there seems to be significant play in the primary chain. The top guide is not in contact with chain? I hope to remove the driver side tomorrow and than start on the front.

Is it possible that coils being shorted by the oil could have caused this problem of cranking rapidly without starting? Once all the plugs are out I will do a compression check.

Any suggestion are appreciated

Thanks - Lanse

[schpenxel]

Originally Posted by dadsyellowgoat

Hello I am new to the forum but have a very similar problem to this thread so I thought I would continue it. First off "schpenxel" what did you ultimately do.

I have a 2001 Lincoln LS with a 3.9 V8. Trying to start it the engine spins over like a bad timing chain. The car has run flawless till this time about 68,000 miles on it. Surprised at this mileage this would happen. Is this somewhat common on this engine. Can this happen without causing piston valve damage. Cranked the engine watched the pulley turned very rapidly without any resistance from compression. Engine cranks as though the plugs are out.

I have begun to disassemble the pass side valve cover is off 3 of 4 plug wells large amount of oil. The chain is intact but there seems to be significant play in the primary chain. The top guide is not in contact with chain? I hope to remove the driver side tomorrow and than start on the front.

Is it possible that coils being shorted by the oil could have caused this problem of cranking rapidly without starting? Once all the plugs are out I will do a compression check.

Any suggestion are appreciated

Thanks - Lanse

I ended up buying a used motor on eBay and just replacing the whole thing. I can say that the motor WILL come out of the top with the tranny still attached. You don't have to have a lift and take it out the bottom like the factory service manuals say.

Do a compression test on all cylinders and report back and you should have your answer of whether it's major damage or not. You could also pull a valve cover or both--I got lucky in that the first one I pulled made the problem obvious because it was on that side.

[dadsyellowgoat]

I have removed the valve covers and discovered many aliments which have been mentioned but the timing chains look intact and in time. Although initially the main chain on the passenger side seemed to have a lot of play and the tensioner seemed to be away from the chain. After cranking the engine it seemed to be tight and the tensioner was against the chain? All 4 camshafts flat spots are in phase. Removing the plugs I discovered 5 of 8 boots seemed covered with oil and 3 with water beads on them. I have since tried all the coils with plugs and they all fired. The spark was not that blue but not sure if that was due to cranking with weak battery. I did a compression test: #1-170, #2&3- 70, all the rest 150. I put some oil into #'s 2&3 and they came up to 150 so I don't think there is anything wrong with the valves. I am planing to reinstall the valve covers with new seals and I have new boots for the coils.

Any thoughts? - Thanks Lanse

[shorod]

I think your plan is a good one to start with. If you had 5 misfiring cylinders, that would certainly make the car difficult to start. However, if you were pumping fuel into the cylinders and the plugs were installed but not firing, I would expect the engine to struggle to spin over rather than spinning over freely like it would if the timing chain were broken.

-Rod

[schpenxel]

Well... You've got compression and spark... the only thing left to look at is fuel (generally speaking of course)

So.. are you sure you have fuel pressure/the injectors are working??

[dadsyellowgoat]

Originally Posted by schpenxel

Well... You've got compression and spark... the only thing left to look at is fuel (generally speaking of course)

So.. are you sure you have fuel pressure/the injectors are working??

Forgot to post that I put a gauge on the rail and just turning the key on I got 30 psi....seemed to take a long time the first time. Once it got up there it held the pressure with the key on or off. I plan to change the fuel filter.

[schpenxel]

have you checked for any codes/old codes? very strange it isn't firing at all..

[dadsyellowgoat]

I wanted to thank everyone for their comments, suggestions, and information emailed to me. The car is back together running tremendous. I am amazed that the car ran so well without any codes with so many things wrong and then suddenly would not start. Bottom line the timing chains were not the problem but I had 5 plug wells full of oil, as well as the back 2 had water, the fuel filter had a lot of water and dirty gas, once I changed that the fuel pressure at the rail came right up. I changed the coil boots, valve cover seals and gaskets, spark plugs. Man the drivers side valve cover is a trip.

Thanks again - Lanse