code P0441 EVAP incorrect purge flow

[96tsport]

Have no clue what to look for exactly. Mech said could be a loose line & also mentioned a solenoid.

Said it doesn't affect driveability or an emission test.

96/3.4

tia

[96tsport]

Tried a google of code P0441 EVAP incorrect purge flow

Lotsa info out there so now have some idea what to fish around for.

What does a code P0441 EVAP emission mean on a 2003
dodge neon purge flow fault?

As part of the OBDII standard effective for 1996 cars and newer, it was mandated that leaks in the systems must be detected and reported as a fault which will set the Check Engine Light (CEL). To detect leaks, the system is pressurized by a pump so that leaks can be detected by a lack of appropriate pressure in the system. If there is a leak, such as a cracked vent hose, loose (or leaky) gas cap, poorly installed or defective O-rings on the fuel level senders on the fuel tank, etc. a code will be set. On the cannister to intake side, leaks are detected by deviations in the idle control system. If you have leaks in the lines from the carbon cannister to the intake, intake leaks, a defective purge valve, etc you will often get purge flow faults.

P0441: Evaporative emission control system incorrect purge flow

[96tsport]

Bought a scanner & now have P1655 & P0107 twice (P0441 gone).
Mech said (in the past) code PO441 might be the purge solenoid but required further testing; nothing to worry about & would even pass emission test

Googled & found this.

1996 Pontiac Trans Sport
I have a 1996 Trans Sport with the 3400 engine. Over 100,000 miles on it.
The check engine light can on. I pulled the codes and got PO441 EVAP incorrect purge flow and P1655 EVAP purge solenoid circuit fault.
Does this mean I should change the purge solenoid and canister or is there something else I should look for.
<snip>
I would ohm the purge solenoid and replace it if it reads open or shorted.If this is not a hard failure(failing right now)I would just replace the purge solenoid and or check the wires between the purge solenoid and the pcm.If the solenoid was shorted the ignition fuse for the pink wire should have blown so I doubt it's shorted but could still be open.With the key on you should have b+ at the pink wire of the solenoid so check that also.Let me know what you find.

Anyone change a PS or know how much they cost?
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Found this link for P0107 (dunno why code comes up twice?)

If I'm right & has to do with the map sensor, not sure but think mech said (in the past) I could try cleaning first with intake spray ..or something? (EDIT- naww, that'd be the maf sensor.. got them mixed up..)

All seems ok with engine; dunno if it matters but muff has been leaking for a bit & slowly getting worse.
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Potential Symptoms (P0107)
Anytime the MAP sensor signal is low the vehicle will likely have a very difficult time starting. Other symptoms may include:

• Hard to start
• Long cranking times
• Sputtering/missing
• Blowing black smoke
• Poor fuel economy
• Dies intermittently
• MIL(Malfunction Indicator Lamp) illumination

Causes
The causes of a low MAP sensor signal circuit (P0107) could be any of the following:

• Bad MAP sensor
• Open or short in the signal circuit
• Open or short in the 5 Volt reference circuit
• Ground circuit open or shorted
• Bad PCM

[96tsport]

I'm leaning towards replacing the map sensor at this point. Wondering though why I'm not getting any of these symptoms.
=====================================
Potential Symptoms (P0107)
Anytime the MAP sensor signal is low the vehicle will likely have a very difficult time starting. Other symptoms may include:

• Hard to start
• Long cranking times
• Sputtering/missing
• Blowing black smoke
• Poor fuel economy
• Dies intermittently
• MIL(Malfunction Indicator Lamp) illumination
• ==============================================

Guess the prob may just be enough to set off a code but not enuff to notice anything yet (engine's humming)?

Wonder also why P0107 comes up twice on a scan?

Maybe I should clear the codes & give it another go?

[96tsport]

Haven't done anything with this to now, engine ran/started well..

Ended up buying one of these (think elm 327) type jobs (as low as ~ 10 bucks now on ebay)....

awhile ago (c/w available free software), finally got around to set it up (mine has the usb connector) & works real good!

8 whole pages of additional live info is available (plus more if you buy the software) on what the engine is up to though when I tried page 5-6-7-8, mil started blinking & engine quits.

Free software supplied with our PC-based scan tools offers basic OBD-2 functionality, such as reading and erasing diagnostic trouble codes, and displaying real-time parameters.
If you wish to access additional parameters, and take advantage of such features as data logging, performance measurements, graphs, and digital gauges, consider buying premium software.

Resetting mil (CEL?)worked & light went out though I was still left with:
P0107*
[Pending] Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Low Input

[96tsport]

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0107

Possible Solutions

First, using a scan tool with the Key on and engine running, monitor the MAP sensor voltage. If it is reading less than .5 volts, turn engine off, unplug the MAP sensor and, using a DVOM (digital Volt/Ohm Meter) check for 5Volts on the 5 Volt reference circuit.

1. If there is not 5 Volts on the reference circuit, then check for the reference voltage at the PCM connector. If it is present at the PCM connector but not the MAP connector, repair the open in the reference circuit between the PCM and MAP harness connector. If 5 Volt reference is NOT present at the PCM connector, check powers and grounds of PCM and repair/replace as needed. (NOTE: On Chrysler products, a shorted Crank sensor, Vehicle speed or any other sensor that utilizes the 5 Volt reference from the PCM can short out the 5 Volt reference. To fix simply unplug each sensor one at a time until the 5 Volt reference reappears. The last sensor unplugged is the shorted sensor.)

2. If you have a 5 Volt reference at the MAP connector, jumper the 5 volt reference circuit to the signal circuit. Now check the MAP voltage on the scan tool. It should be 4.5 to 5 Volts. If it is, replace MAP sensor. If not, repair open/short in the signal circuit wiring and re-check.

3. If all appears okay, perform a wiggle test. Start engine and manipulate the harness, connector and tap on the MAP sensor. Note any changes in voltage or engine speed. Repair connector, harness, or sensor as needed.

4. If the wiggle test checks out, use a vacuum pump (or just use your lungs) to draw a vacuum on the MAP sensor vacuum port. As you add vacuum the voltage should decrease. With no vacuum, the MAP sensor should read approximately 4.5 volts. If there is no change in MAP sensor reading on the scan tool, replace MAP sensor.

Anyhoo.. looks like I'll be changing the MAP sensor but not sure if cleaning the MAF might do the trick? Was confused about the 2 diff things there.. for a bit.. thought they were the same.

Plan is to deal with P0107.. & then go from there. Funny.. no real symptoms (as in engine acting up in any way) to now & engine hummed the whole time. Did have some stumbling at stops & idle speed.. the other day though that came & went.

[96tsport]

'Bout a moth ago, pulling off the highway after a short 15 minute hop to work & coming to a stop at a light, suddenly had a terrible & low idle, around 500 RPMs. Stayed that way for the next few lights.

Thought for sure it was time to deal with the (had it for a loong time now) map code..

Forget the return trip home but everything appeared normal after that..

Last weekend, drove my daughter to work around 06:00 in the morning on a short 15 minute (non highway) hop to work. Was 9/10s asleep but felt like I had a power loss, or perhaps a shifting/flaring tranny problem, but then seemed to go away too..

Next day, all normal & thought maybe I was dreaming the day before..

So had a 1.5 hr trip/cruise planned for a Sun night & very quickly on the highway, had a clear power loss scenario, felt like a few cyls were out, or not firing. When I came to a stop to try to make it back home, idle was bad/low/ruff & had very poor power again on the highway but could still get up to speed..

Stopped at Crappy tire & picked up a map sensor 88 bucks (seen 'em on ebay for around 30..)

When I went to change it, looked like the connector to the map was not fully plugged in but loose.. Pushed it in tight & turned out that was the prob the whole time!

There is a no return policy on electrical parts, so have a spare M/S now. Since driving the car after the fix, the engine light has gone away on its own.

Came back on though since, but then went away again.. sooo no quite done yet. Used to do that when i only had the evap code..