just purchased "run your car on water" book

[northern piper]

i just bought this book. http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com

It is a very complete manual on using water to increase fuel economy. I'm wondering if anyone else has done so for their windstar. I chose this purchase over others as the reviews from http://www.allcbreviews.com
was very good.

It cost $49 so I think it's a gamble but the 3rd party reviews are pretty good.

Any thoughts?

Piper

[CnlK]

Let us know what your results are. I've seen some videos on youtube, a combustible gas is being produced. The question seems to be, is enough gas produced to make a difference and at what energy cost? From some reading I've done, special O2 sensor and MAF electronic adjuster boxes are required to make the system most efficient. Have you determined where you might mount the system in the engine compartment?

[northern piper]

well the water tank storage thing is an issue as is the interface with the intake. The book is over 100 pages long and while the author states that the installation can be done in an afternoon you still have to build the whole generator. On youtube there are some pretty dangerous looking generators but this one seems very well designed and the instructions are very thourough. I don't have any idea of material cost or time. There are detailed parts lists and sources of where to buy the parts. I am most interested in how to get the gas, once created, into the intake. (I'm sure Ford makes a part for just this application/conversion ). Anyway, I'm going to read the book this weekend and will report back on Monday.

Piper

[northern piper]

Well in reading the book, although very thourough on how the concept works, it's a bit shy on the "how to make" part. As an example, they provide a schematic of various capacitors, resistors, potentiometers, ICs and then say "fabricate the ciruit as illustrated". I'm pretty mechanically handy and have taken electrical engineering but I'm not able to create ciruit boards and then attach components let alone find the ICs and various other components. So, stay away from that site. I've contacted them and have been lead to believe that a refund will be done to my account. I'm not holding my breath .

There is a fantastic yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar
which I've found really good much like here. FWIW, check there if you like. I am still considering doing this but not with the directions I've listed above.

Piper

[LeSabre97mint]

Piper

I too have been looking at making hydrogen to burn in an internal combustion engine. I have the SS plates cut the SS bolts to put them together and the noncunductive spacers to space them apart. It's just a mater of time and I'll be bubbling hydrogen.

At one point in our history we were convinced that the world was flat. Just the same thinking may be that we can't create enough hydrogen to run an IC.

Some thoughts.

Regards

Dan

[patricke123]

Here are some pictures of my 1999 For Windstar that's been converted to run on water! Here is the website where I purchased the plans -

( Link removed by wiswind, reason Automotive Forums terms of use agreement, Questions? PM me )

they were very professional and it really was pretty easy to do. Basical you use water and the cars electrical system to produces hydrogen and the hydrgen supplments the fuel. So far so good! My MPG went from apx. 15 to apx. 28 on the first trank of gas. That was with two generators. I have added two more generators for a total of four and just filled up again. I'll let you know how the second tank goes with the four generators. I can confidently recomend the instructions from the website above and say that they REALLY work because I have done it myself!!!!

Patrick

[Selectron]

Originally Posted by patricke123

Here is the website where I purchased the plans...

I'm a bit puzzled about why you purchased the plans from the website, Patrick, considering that you own the site. Your profile says you're Patrick from Moreno Valley, and as expected, a Whois check on the website domain name which you linked to reveals that it's owned by one Patrick Ersig from Moreno Valley. You also own the domain: (website address removed by Selectron, because it redirected to the aforementioned sales site).

That's the problem with all this 'Run your car on water' stuff - you can't believe a damned thing you read about it because so many people are jumping on the bandwagon to make some easy money, posting on forums pretending to be satisfied customers when in fact they are the business owners. These so-called 'review' sites bother me too - I expect the bulk of the 'reviews' are written by those who sell the kit and sell the plans.

[Gobowiec]

Honestly – I don’t believe a word. If this could be true I would change not only my car, but build a heating system for my house, a power plant … This would be the first perpetum mobile: take water, make water and still have energy from this. Only one thing worries me – it caught my attention for a while. This means I’m getting old and my brain is not working as it should.

[tomj76]

The search for perpetual motion is perpetual.

You can't get something for nothing.

The energy that it takes to break water into HHO or hydrogen and oxygen will alway be more than the useful energy you get when it's burned.

To claim or think otherwise is to suggest that a car can start from a dead stop to coast down a hill and then reach the peak of the next hill that is as high or even higher than the first.

Combustion engines run at <30% thermodynamic efficiency. The chemcially stored energy of the hydrogen/oxygen mixture is less than the energy it takes to split the water molecule. No one can get around that basic fact.

[knl25]

Originally Posted by tomj76

The search for perpetual motion is perpetual.

You can't get something for nothing.

The energy that it takes to break water into HHO or hydrogen and oxygen will alway be more than the useful energy you get when it's burned.

To claim or think otherwise is to suggest that a car can start from a dead stop to coast down a hill and then reach the peak of the next hill that is as high or even higher than the first.

Combustion engines run at <30% thermodynamic efficiency. The chemcially stored energy of the hydrogen/oxygen mixture is less than the energy it takes to split the water molecule. No one can get around that basic fact.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic. We may get there sooner than you think. Check these out:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0731143345.htm

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...ci;1162018/DC2

[tomj76]

Thanks for the article.

I think that HHO is a great way to store energy derived from other sources, even with it's potential for explosive detonation.

However, at least some of the "run your car on water" camp ignore important facts. First and formost, they claim that you can somehow get more power from your engine by using hydrogen that’s somehow generated by the engine. From what I’ve seen, most are based in using electrical power from the engine to make the hydrogen. It can’t work. If you start with gasoline and oxygen, use them to power an internal combustion engine to convert the chemically stored energy to mechanical energy, convert that energy to electrical energy, then convert it back to chemically stored energy in the form of HHO, you will always have less energy stored in the HHO than you had stored in the original amount of gasoline and oxygen that was used to make it. Another important point overlooked is the volume of a useful amount of hydrogen. While LIQUID hydrogen has a high energy (~142 MJ/kg or about 3x that of gasoline), it's density is low such that the energy per gallon is 1/3 that of gasoline. Put differently, this means you'd need a 60 gallon hydrogen tank to match the range that your 20 gallon gasoline tank gives you. Not to mention that LIQUID hydrogen can only be stored as a liquid if kept at 37 oK (-240 oC). Hydrogen is also a ozone depleting gas.

The bottom line is that the amount of energy you get out of you engine, which will be used to accelerate your vehicle and overcome the frictional forces continuously trying to stop it can only be increased by putting more energy in. You can accomplish either by changing the thermodynamics (i.e. turbocharging, higher compression), increasing energy input (N2O, larger displacement), or another form of assistance (hybrid).

The articles are speaking of essentially taking the solar energy and storing it for later use. It's a good idea, and it's not what these books are putting forth.

There's a good discussion of Hydrogen fuel use on the Wikipedia website, under the topic Hydrogen Economy.

[CnlK]

Good detailed analysis. From some on the websites I've visted these systems typically draw 30 amps DC. 1 Hp is equivelant to 746 watts I think so the system is demanding around 1/2 hp & add some inefficiency your probably close to 1 hp. For the brown gas addition to be beneficial it would have to give more than a 1 hp gain. The producer of the coast to coast radio show installed a system on his car and mileage decreased, they're going to repeat the experiment. Instead of using system voltage has anyone tried rigging a string trimmer ignition coil fired by a rotating magnetic field? This would have to provide less drag, higher voltage & much lower amps. I wouldn't count on the big three to provide the next big break through, guys in their garages might do it, like the founding of apple computers.

[tomj76]

I can only say one thing.

Energy must be conserved.

It doesn't mater how it's "rigged". It doesn't matter if it's electrical, mechanical, or chemical. The type of vehicle doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's a startup company or a big company. It doesn't matter what country it's in. None of that matters.

Energy must be conserved.

[mtsav8or]

To Patrick, Your system appears to be a very basic series electrolyzer. It contains no safety "valves" to prevent explosion and I don't see any fuses on the circuit. While it's good to experiment, I wouldn't advise you to run that system for long. You're likely to blow youreself up or burn up your electrical system. Did you do anything to trick out your O2/MAF computations to obtain those mileage quotes?

All others interested in hydroxide production and fuel supplementation. There is tons of free info on build systems safely and great advice for free. I've attached a few websites. You've got to filter through a lot of the preaching to get to the technical stuff but it's worth the trouble. It's good reading and since explosive gases can be quite dangerous, it's worth the time.

I don't advocate doing this but if you do, do it safely and be aware of the risks.

Has the most complete free info but also a lot of other not so useful info. (at least for my skill level)
http://www.free-energy-info.com/
Good instructions for basic systems and parts for sale if you don't want to make them.
http://hydrogengarage.com/home.html
Parts and advice.
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

I'm building a single container 6 cell parallel / double electrode electrolyzer with pressure cutoff safety switch and two flashback prevention bubblers. I'll be installing on my 2000 Windstar. I'll provide an instructable here when it's complete.

Good luck to all looking to experiment and I hope Peter keeps improving his system and keeps the data coming.

[CnlK]

Looking forward to your results mtsav8or. I just read in a water treatment industry publication that a Japanese company will soon be unveiling an electric car that runs on water. They didn't provide any technical details, sounds impossible but so did flight & airplanes to all the experts of that day.