97 Grand Am Gt 3.1 Lifter Noise

[Mullinsports]

While driving down the E-Way at 70 mph my GT suddenly felt like it lost half its power. It still ran on all 6 cyls but had very little power and the exhaust seemed to get quieter. When I got home I opened the hood to find the lifters all rattling like crazy. Thinking it was timing I bought and installed all new timing gears, chain and gaskets. I did not find the engine out of time when I disassembled it. When I got it back together and started it up it ran just as it did before, still had no power and the lifters all rattled like crazy still. I then cut the catylitic coverter off thinking it was plugged. No change. I am out of ideas. Someone must have the solution out there! Please tell me whats wrong and you will be my hero!

[wafrederick]

The 3100 is known for eating camshafts and break in half.The block is junk right away when this happens.It could be a broken cam

[03GMCSonoma]

I would be checking for proper oil pressure. Noisy lifters are sometimes the first symtom of low or no oil pressure.

[xeroinfinity]

Welcome to AF Mullinsports !!

Lifters are typical problems with these engines. I not seen any cam shafts broken, tho its possible, I highly doubt its broke or it would not run at all, or thier would be much more noise.

Have you changed your oil regularly as scheduled ??

You might try some Sea Foam engine treatment in your oil, only takes 2-3 oz. , if it quites them down then they are probly gummed up with varnish, causing the noise.

If it doesnt, then you likly have other problems. Which if the lifters fail the valves dont open correctly and will cause a loose of power.

I just went thru this in my 99 GT, ended up being a bad lifter, so I pulled the top end off and replaced them.

Hope that helps.

[wafrederick]

I have seen them with broken cams including the 3400s and it is GM's fault.GM had the blocks casted in China,putting in cheap cam bearings and the cam journals were casted offset.Jasper,a top of the line engine reman company found this out.They have fixed this problem,Jasper alighn bores the cam journals and upgrades the cam bearings.Jasper is the only one that does this.

[Mullinsports]

Thank you all for your suggestions and sharing your experiences. I have been working on cars for over 35 years and have seen some strange things happen that were hard to understand and explain. This particular issue is one that should be easy to understand, but unfortunatly it defies easy explination. I will check the oil pressure with a new gauge I ordered lwhen it arrives. It does appear to have fairly good oil pressure and only having 55k miles on this engine I assume it is still pretty good. The engine runs smooth from an idle all the way up the RPM curve when in park and doesn't seem to miss at all when in gear, but lacks any power to accelerate. IE. it takes almost a half mile to get to 60 mph. I have removed the cat. converter but it made no difference. I drive 150 miles a day for work and keep the oil changed ever 3000 to 4000 miles. The cam chain did have lots of slack in it so I replaced it thinking that was the issue. It made no difference. I don't think the cam is broken. It would make more noise and would have an unmistakable miss. The noise is all coming from the lifters but they all rattle and they all started rattling at the same time. I am now thinking that somehow the lifters have restricted oil flow causing the noise even though I have lots of oil flowing up top under the rocker covers. The oil I drained from the engine was still clean enough to see thru and I found no shavings or debris in the oil. I would have removed the pan but its seem impossible to do without seperating from the transaxle because of the bolts in the side of the pan. My next move is to check oil pressure. If I find it questionalbe I will pull the engine and take the pan off to search for the cause. I wonder if the oil pump drive shaft could be the problem somehow? Do they ever strip? What happens if the EGR valve doesn't function properly? Is it possible the Crank Sensor is somehow causing a pre-ignition issue? I was driving 70mph when this issue started all of a sudden.

Sooner or later I will figure this out. Thank you all for your help. I will entertain any suggestions and always learn from what others share so feel free to leave your input. When I do figure this out I will come back and let you all know what the problem was. It may benifit someone else someday.

[xeroinfinity]

Originally Posted by wafrederick

I have seen them with broken cams including the 3400s and it is GM's fault.GM had the blocks casted in China,putting in cheap cam bearings and the cam journals were casted offset.Jasper,a top of the line engine reman company found this out.They have fixed this problem,Jasper alighn bores the cam journals and upgrades the cam bearings.Jasper is the only one that does this.

I guess these cams are a problem, I think they are hollow and not a solid cast piece, which is why one would break easily... though I have not seen any cracked or broke ones on any 3.1/3.4's(and i've worked on a few 100 or two), a couple on the 4.3's years back.

Originally Posted by Mullinsports

Thank you all for your suggestions and sharing your experiences. I have been working on cars for over 35 years and have seen some strange things happen that were hard to understand and explain. This particular issue is one that should be easy to understand, but unfortunatly it defies easy explination. I will check the oil pressure with a new gauge I ordered lwhen it arrives. It does appear to have fairly good oil pressure and only having 55k miles on this engine I assume it is still pretty good. The engine runs smooth from an idle all the way up the RPM curve when in park and doesn't seem to miss at all when in gear, but lacks any power to accelerate. IE. it takes almost a half mile to get to 60 mph. I have removed the cat. converter but it made no difference. I drive 150 miles a day for work and keep the oil changed ever 3000 to 4000 miles. The cam chain did have lots of slack in it so I replaced it thinking that was the issue. It made no difference. I don't think the cam is broken. It would make more noise and would have an unmistakable miss. The noise is all coming from the lifters but they all rattle and they all started rattling at the same time. I am now thinking that somehow the lifters have restricted oil flow causing the noise even though I have lots of oil flowing up top under the rocker covers. The oil I drained from the engine was still clean enough to see thru and I found no shavings or debris in the oil. I would have removed the pan but its seem impossible to do without seperating from the transaxle because of the bolts in the side of the pan. My next move is to check oil pressure. If I find it questionalbe I will pull the engine and take the pan off to search for the cause. I wonder if the oil pump drive shaft could be the problem somehow? Do they ever strip? What happens if the EGR valve doesn't function properly? Is it possible the Crank Sensor is somehow causing a pre-ignition issue? I was driving 70mph when this issue started all of a sudden.

Sooner or later I will figure this out. Thank you all for your help. I will entertain any suggestions and always learn from what others share so feel free to leave your input. When I do figure this out I will come back and let you all know what the problem was. It may benifit someone else someday.

Have you tried scanning it for trouble codes ?

If the cam or crank sensor or going south you should get a code, but not always will it trip the SES lights. These would cause performance issues if faulty.

And yes if your EGR is plugged or not working you could hav issues from this.

Though I'd bet its a lifter collapsed/damaged.

Good Luck Mullinsports !

[Mullinsports]

Problem found:
Cam bearings spun and blocked the flow of oil to the top end. The lifters had no oil to pump up the hydraulic pressure. The result was collapsed lifters causing slop in the rockers. The loose push rods (6 of 12 were always loose) caused the noise and loss of power.
I purchased a remanufactured long block from Murray's Discount Auto parts for about 1600 and it works great. I looked everyplace for a replacement engine and it was a best deal. It only took 1 day to get it delivered to the store.
Good luck to anyone else out there with this issue.
Thanks to all who helped with feedback on my question!

[xeroinfinity]

Glad you got it fixed though 1600 seems kinda high for a block.
Spun a bearing!

[wafrederick]

There are drawbacks on a reman engine from auto parts stores,use the cheapest parts and the warranty sucks,you have to take it one of their places for warranty work.Jasper is the best one out there using high quality parts,does upgrades and a better warranty,a 3 year 100,000 mile warranty.

[xeroinfinity]

Jasper is good at reman., never heard of Murry's though

[Airjer_]

I've had two in the shop with broken cams. The first one through me for a loop and had me quite stumped. The second took all of about 30 seconds to figure out. It does happen!!!!

[doctorhrdware]

It is associated with Advanced Auto Parts, It is Murrays Discount auto parts.

[wafrederick]

Just put in a Jasper reman in a 1998 Malibu,about $2,000.00.This one,the owner of the car let the intake gaskets go with a coolant leak and the oil filter blew up with the rods rattling with no holes in the block.The Jasper reman comes with the upgraded metal intake gaskets.

[Mullinsports]

I never did figure out who did the reman on the engine although it came with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty and yes...it must be returned to the place of purchase if warranty work is required. So be it, the unlimited part works for me considering I drive 325 miles a day round trip for work.
While I had the engine out I pressure washed everything I could squirt to clean things up a little. Now the darn thing won't shift properly. Good grief! If I run the RPM's up to 3200 it will shift, but thats as good as it gets.
I plugged in the OBDII but it won't read a code. It keeps telling me it must be plugged in! I took out the factory service manuals and followed the instructions. It appears to be a ground issue on the OBDII, but I will be darned if I can find the problem. This is just what I was looking forward to. Diagnosing the diagnostic connector! Maybe I will get lucky and the car fairy will drop a meteor on it!
It sure looks good out there in the back yard with new tires, a new engine, and no mileage! Oh how I wish money grew on trees!

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