Plz settle the longtime transmission taboo

[lorakew]

I have a 2000 toyota camry (5S-FE) and i just changed the transmission fluid. My uncle saw me changing my transmission fluid and stopped in to yell at me; emphasizing that i made a huge mistake by draining all the fluid in the pan. He had an older nissan altima that didn't last because he had the transmission fluid flushed. What a prick, he makes me second guess myself. BTW he also said that he waited too long between transmission servicings... and when he said that, i figured he waited too long and his fluid burned/oxidized. Is he a chauvinist? or just a mechanically uninformed idiot to yell at me.

Anyways I did my ATF change according to Haynes except the cleaning the strainer & pan part.

Here are my spec's:
2000 toyota camry (like the '99 model)
5S-FE
Automatic Transmission
Odometer reads 90,000 miles
52,000 miles since last ATF change
Bought correct spec's (dex III)
Valvoline Max Life ATF DEX/MEX
Changed differential (1.7 quarts)
Drained ATF pan (2.6 quarts)

I did the ATF change according to my haynes manual except i didn't loosen all the bolts on the pan and completely remove the pan to clean it. I also didn't clean the strainer inside. I know the haynes manual says that my ATF should be changed every 30,000 miles, however it has been driven 52,000 miles since the previous change. The differential has never been changed. That means it hasn't been changed in 8 years, but i can't be sure because i bought this car used... however when i bought it, it only had 5,000 miles on it. So i reasoned that the differential has never been changed. I read somewhere that the differential should be changed every 4 years (that's an approximation).



Did i make a big mistake?

When i changed the differential fluid, i noticed that it looked brand new, bright red. However the ATF in the ATF pan was red/brown. I didn't pour in the whole 2.6 quarts into the transaxle dipstick, i only poured in about 2.3 quarts. I didn't turn the engine on yet, however I looked at the ATF dipstick and the fluid reaches the middle of the dipstick.
I am worried. But i'm thinking that the reason for the high ATF on the dipstick is because the stick has to wind through the metal piping and it might be picking up traces from what i just poured down.

Somebody please tell me if i'm making a HUGE mistake.

[Brian R.]

I don't see anything wrong in what you did. In draining and refilling the pan, you replaced about a third of the total fluid. If you intend to replace all the fluid, you will have to flush it through the transmission fluid cooler lines by the radiator (capacity is 6 qts). Your torque converter and valve body do not drain into the pan, but stay filled with the engine off. The differential fluid looks much cleaner because it stays much cooler than the transmission fluid. Also, the clutches in the transmission wear some and the lining dust ends up in the ATF. The torque converter heats up the ATF in the transmission to the point where the transmission needs a separate cooler in the radiator. The differential is just a gear box.

Be sure and check the fluid level when it is hot (after running through all the gear positions) and the engine idling.

I consistently flush my transmission and replace the differential fluid every 30K.

[RIP]

Ya, you probably should have dropped the pan, changed the gasket, cleaned or changed the strainer, and checked the magnets for debrie but, besides that, you did just fine. You certainly didn't do any harm. Drive it around for 10 minutes then check the fluid level when it's hot. It will come down some.

Your uncle is probably over sensative because he had a bad experience with a flush. I've read that happens more often than you may think. I've concluded draining or at the most a complete change via the cooler lines as Brian R pointed out is the only tried and true method that's safe to do.

OBTW - I bought used 94 Camry with 95K miles on it for my daughter some years back. Dealer said it passed a 125 point inspection. Two months later I went to change the diff fluid and found barely a pint was in it (no dipstick on 94s). I saw zero evidense of a leak. I could only conclude it had been that way for quite a while. Proves two things. Dealership inspections can be worthless and the diffs on these Camrys are bullet proof. The car now has 210K miles and is still purring along.

[lorakew]

Originally Posted by RIP

Ya, you probably should have dropped the pan, changed the gasket, cleaned or changed the strainer, and checked the magnets for debrie but, besides that, you did just fine. You certainly didn't do any harm. Drive it around for 10 minutes then check the fluid level when it's hot. It will come down some.

Your uncle is probably over sensative because he had a bad experience with a flush. I've read that happens more often than you may think. I've concluded draining or at the most a complete change via the cooler lines as Brian R pointed out is the only tried and true method that's safe to do.

I also meant to ask... Does putting in too much ATF cause harm? After hearing from Brian that 1/3 of the fluid remains in the torque converter, that means that I should have only put in about 1.7 quarts instead of the full the capacity of the ATF pan (2.7Qt)... Should i guestimate and remove the drain plug to bleed some out of the system. I figure better too little than too much before the test drive... I heard that it can foam or cause damage if you put too much in the system.

[RIP]

Yes, too much fluid can damage your tranny but, from what you're saying you're ok. As Brian R pointed out, total fluid capacity is about 6 quarts. When you drain it at the drain plug you only get about 1/3 of the fluid drained. If you put in about two quarts you should be ok. Even if you did over fill it, the 10 minute drive to warm it up won't hurt it. If it's a concern, let it idle in the driveway for a good 15 minutes, shifting it through the gears a few times, then check the fluid level. I would still drive it a bit to get a solid reading on the level.

[lorakew]

Originally Posted by Brian R.

I don't see anything wrong in what you did. In draining and refilling the pan, you replaced about a third of the total fluid. If you intend to replace all the fluid, you will have to flush it through the transmission fluid cooler lines by the radiator (capacity is 6 qts). Your torque converter and valve body do not drain into the pan, but stay filled with the engine off. The differential fluid looks much cleaner because it stays much cooler than the transmission fluid. Also, the clutches in the transmission wear some and the lining dust ends up in the ATF. The torque converter heats up the ATF in the transmission to the point where the transmission needs a separate cooler in the radiator. The differential is just a gear box.

Be sure and check the fluid level when it is hot (after running through all the gear positions) and the engine idling.

I consistently flush my transmission and replace the differential fluid every 30K.

If the torque converter and valve body do not drain into the pan, but stay filled with the engine off... Where is their supply of ATF coming from? Does that mean that the fluid in the torque converter and valve body can get extremely dirty? I am going to check the fluid level now.. Will post back in an hour.

[lorakew]

DIY Money Savings

Just wanted to do some more homework on my savings of draining and refilling the transmission fluid myself. I called the dealership just now. The drain and refill is $69.95.
Dealer also has a full flush for 149.95 (non-synthetic transmission fluid). Synthetic transmission flush is 179.95 but that depends on your car if it uses it in the specs.

The dealership said the "Drain and Refill" service is where the just drain all the fluid from the pan and refill it with new fluid. The "Flush" is where they use a machine that constantly removes fluid and eventually replaces all the old transmission with new fluid. He tried to sell me the full flush. I asked him if he's ever heard of people saying that it's not good to completely flush the transmission, and he said that he's never heard of that. He said it's better for your car to do the "Flush". (for 149.95)

Just to clear things up, my DIY is the drain and refill which i would have been charged about $70. The fluid i bought at autozone (4 quarts) fills both the transmission pan and differential to do a drain and refill. I paid $3.99 per quart for Valvoline Max Life ATF Dex/Mex (dex III for imports). So i paid in all $16 in transmission fluid, where the dealer charges $70 for the same service. By the way, i also checked with autozone when i purchased the Automatic Transmission Fluid quarts, and they also recycle the old transmission fluid in their free fluid recycling program.

You can't beat that!

[lorakew]

Update Post:

I drove the car for around 15 mins. While the car was on, i shifted into every gear (P to L). I checked the transmission dipstick after driving and yes, after you put in the new transmission fluid and start the car, the fluid goes down on the dipstick level. I made sure i changed through all the gears while the car was on as well as applying the parking brake, take a look at the picture below:

Engine HOT Car ON: Notice the majority of the heavy fluid is at the triangle tip of the dipstick.






Engine HOT Car OFF:


From looking at these, I'd say it needs more Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). Would you agree?
According the Haynes, the Transmission pan holds 2.7 quarts. I only put in 2.3 quarts. I'm going to buy another bottle and add the remaining 0.4 quarts

[Brian R.]

Originally Posted by lorakew

If the torque converter and valve body do not drain into the pan, but stay filled with the engine off... Where is their supply of ATF coming from? Does that mean that the fluid in the torque converter and valve body can get extremely dirty? I am going to check the fluid level now.. Will post back in an hour.

The torque converter and valve body use the same reservoir of fluid as the rest of the transmission. They oil pump in the transmission keeps them filled and there is no way for them to drain back into the pan. They just stay filled. Flushing or draining and filling the pan changes fluid everywhere in the transmission. Some cars have a separate drain on the torque converter, but not Toyotas.

In answer to your question about the fill lines, you need some fluid but it is difficult to judge how much since the temperature of the fluid influences the fluid height on the dipstick. Add, drive, then check again on a level surface.

BTW, you can flush your transmission yourself. You don't need a machine at the dealer. You only need some tubing and some empty milk bottles.

[lorakew]

Here are some conversions I found helpful.
Notice the container itself is a quart, but when you turn it sideways to measure portions, the units change to mL and oz.

The Transmisson Pan on a 2000 camry 5S-FE holds 2.7 Quarts. So i poured in the 2 quarts, now i need to pour in the 0.7 quarts.
Using conversions thats about 22.4 oz.

2.7 quart [US, liquid] = 2 555.15 mL

1 quart [US, liquid] = 946.3 mL [US, liquid]
1 quart [US, liquid] = 2 pint [US, liquid]
1 quart [US, liquid] = 32 oz [US, liquid]

0.7 quart [US, liquid] = 662.4 mL [US, liquid]
0.7 quart [US, liquid] = 22.4 ounce [US, liquid]

[lorakew]

Originally Posted by Brian R.

The torque converter and valve body use the same reservoir of fluid as the rest of the transmission. They oil pump in the transmission keeps them filled and there is no way for them to drain back into the pan. They just stay filled. Flushing or draining and filling the pan changes fluid everywhere in the transmission. Some cars have a separate drain on the torque converter, but not Toyotas.

In answer to your question about the fill lines, you need some fluid but it is difficult to judge how much since the temperature of the fluid influences the fluid height on the dipstick. Add, drive, then check again on a level surface.

BTW, you can flush your transmission yourself. You don't need a machine at the dealer. You only need some tubing and some empty milk bottles.

Yep, i'm going to head to the autostore and buy another quart, at the same time i'll recycle the old transmission fluid. I will do the add then drive then check and readd.

I can't believe people pay that much money for a flush, when they can do it themselves.

Thanks for your help!

[jdmccright]

Not everyone has the inclination, space, or tools to do it. I wouldn't want to do this in a blacktop parking lot with no shade on a 95-degree day...been there, spilled that.

I've heard of similar problems that your uncle described. Waiting too long to change, then opting to flush in hopes of reversing all that neglect, only to mess things up further. The flushing usually loosens up deposits or debris and ends up circulating that crud back into the tranny, causing the damage. Doing it the homemade way or just the simple drain & fill 3x is better.

To me, regular drain & fill fluid changes is the way to go...if not, theyd've written it in the service manual.

[Brian R.]

I just flushed my Camry and 4Runner with Mobil1 synthetic ATF. I am testing how long the fluid will last. Normally, I've flushed every 30K with Dino ATF. I'm hoping I won't need to change the ATF again in these vehicles.

In the 4Runner (5VZ-FE), I found that the Toyota service manual is incorrect in the amount of ATF the pan holds. The manual says 2 quarts, but I found it was more like 4 quarts.

[solidg]

On my camry I have flushes done every 30k

I have read all the different opinions

Seems to be a split decision out there

i now have 135k miles so for now everythings ok

00 camry le v6