'98 metro 3cyl, 5spd - new owner

[snowninja]

hi all - this is my first post but have been reading this metro forum for a few weeks now, lots of great info and knowledgeable folks here, i have learned alot already!

i have a few questions about the metro i recently purchased, as the title states, it's a '98 3 cyl, 5speed, 3 door, 133k on the odometer and no A/C. i have not been able to check the MPG yet since i've only put about 100miles on it so far but just today did an oil/filter change, replaced the alternator belt, and swapped the cap/rotor/wires, and plugs.

* the engine sounds great and seems to be running strong (never driven a 3cyl car before), the person that sold me the car said it was rebuilt 18k ago but he had no documentation so i can only take his word for it. is there anyway i can find out by looking at it?

* at an idle the engine vibrates a little, in neutral the gear shifter sort of oscillates around, is this normal for these engines? the idle seems smooth, just a little vibration going on.

* when making a right hand turn the left front wheel makes some noise (rubbing/grinding), is this a worn out wheel bearing or cv joint? how do i troubleshoot this? i want to do the work myself if i can.

* when i push the clutch (idling) i hear some noise in the engine compartment, not rubbing or grinding just a louder pitch sound, guessing this is normal but just wanted to make sure, it shifts just fine, clutch pedal has about an inch of play before requiring pressure to push down.

overall i'm pretty happy with it but would really appreciate your answers/opinions on the questions i have posed, i'm sure there will be more to come.

i can't wait to figure out my MPG, what can i expect out of this engine/year/mileage?

cheers,
snowninja

[Johnny Mullet]

the engine sounds great and seems to be running strong (never driven a 3cyl car before), the person that sold me the car said it was rebuilt 18k ago but he had no documentation so i can only take his word for it. is there anyway i can find out by looking at it?

At that mileage, the car was due for the notorious valve replacement. The best way to check is to do a compression test on all 3 cylinders. This will tell a lot especially if you test them wet and dry.

at an idle the engine vibrates a little, in neutral the gear shifter sort of oscillates around, is this normal for these engines? the idle seems smooth, just a little vibration going on.

Mine does the same thing and I am not sure if it's normal, but it even did this after rebuilding it, so maybe. I never seen a definite answer for this common issue.

when making a right hand turn the left front wheel makes some noise (rubbing/grinding), is this a worn out wheel bearing or cv joint? how do i troubleshoot this? i want to do the work myself if i can.

It could be a bearing or even brakes. Be sure to inspect the frame where the lower control arm mounts and make sure it's not rotted out and causing the axle to bind.

when i push the clutch (idling) i hear some noise in the engine compartment, not rubbing or grinding just a louder pitch sound, guessing this is normal but just wanted to make sure, it shifts just fine, clutch pedal has about an inch of play before requiring pressure to push down.

This could be a worn throwout bearing. Is the clutch original? Maybe it's time to change it if it is and it will be worth it in the long run. I did mine in my garage with all hand tools.

what can i expect out of this engine/year/mileage?

Depends on how you drive it and maintain it. I am getting almost 60MPG from mine with some slight modifications.

[Woodie83]

Welcome;

As Johnny said, get a compression test, that will tell a lot. Advance your timing to 10 before and never use oil thicker than 5W-30. These simple steps will help ensure longer valve life. Your three cylinder will never idle smoothly, it just doesn't have enough cylinders to be well balanced.

Stepping on the clutch pedal puts a pretty good load on both the throwout bearing and the thrust bearing on the crankshaft. A slight noise would be normal, or it could be that your throwout bearing is bad. Hard to tell over the Internet. :-) There should be a quarter of an inch play in the clutch pedal, there's a barrel nut on the end of the clutch cable below and between your distributor and battery. Turn this nut until the arm it connects to can just barely rattle a little, I turn it until there is no play whatsoever, then back off half a turn.

[snowninja]

i picked up a compression tester but have never used one, it's an actron, the instructions say to remove all the plugs, is it required or can i remove one at a time? it also says to remove the air filter and wire the throttle wide open and leave it that way thru the test, is that really required? lastly it says to remove the lead from the distribtutor cap and ground it on the frame. i just want to make sure there are all the right things to do to get the best results from those with experience. 2 readings per cylinder for accuracy. any other tips? what should the reading be?

on a side note, i ran it 71 miles today (my typical commute) and refilled at the same pump i filled up this morning, it only used 1.29 gallons which equates to 55MPG.. given the short run i know this might not be completely accurate but hell it's a good start, i'll fill up again friday night to see where it lands.

I checked into the clutch kit and it looks like they are about $100, I do not know if this one is original or not, it does sort of sounds like a dry bearing spinning when i push it in.

the noise up front on the left wheel happens in both braking and non-braking right hand turns or right hand curves at moderate speed. i might have this one looked at by the brake shop to get a diagnosis.

cheers,
snowninja

[MrPink]

Originally Posted by Woodie83

and never use oil thicker than 5W-30...

I've seen you say this before, and I must say that I don't agree with this philosophy at all. You might as well use grinding compound in the crankcase. It's thinner! For normal temperature driving, the manual specifies 10W-30. Unless snowninja is comfortable experimenting, this is what I would recommend he stick to. Thin oil does not necessarily translate to fuel economy, nor does it necessarily equate to easier cold-weather starts. Pour-point is what matters in the cold. As an aside, I would definitely run one quart of synthetic in the crankcase, but I would not run all synthetic.

I now run 15W-40 in mine (Rotella/Delo/Valvoline-Cummins, any are fine, though the CI+ stuff is gone and they're all at CJ spec now, which is icky) plus a bottle of MPZ. The engine is smoother and quieter than than it's ever been (a plus in these pups!), and it appears fuel economy has increased another couple of MPG, though I will not really know until I've done more driving.

I know you'll reply, and I will tell you right now that we will have to agree to disagree. :)

Snowninja: Welcome! You've got an awesome car. If you ever decide you don't want it, put me on the short list!

As others have said, the vibration at idle is normal. Mine did it, too.

I'd worry about the clutch and noise when you wear it out. Why change it if it's not slipping yet?

Dollars to doughnuts says you need a new CV axle on the driver's side. For some reason, the D side seems to wear out faster. However... if you are gentle with it, you can probably get another 20-40K out of the axle. Mine started making noise at around 100K (and the boot was bad WAY before that), and I pushed it to 133K before I got around to changing it. And yes, look for rust or trouble at the mounts.

I used to get 50 in my 3-cyl without even trying, but this was on a '91 without power steering (and it was a lighter car) so 55 seems a bit high. Don't depend on the shutoff on the pump. Start by carefully topping off (you'll get the hang of this) until the fuel literally stops draining down the filler tube (it will take about ten seconds to "glug" down if it's going to drain) and sits right at the bottom of the neck shutter. Then the next time you fill up, do the same thing, and you will know exactly (well, within pump tolerance) what your fuel consumption was.

Wanna have fun? Get a Scangauge.

Run Torco in the transmission. Your gearbox will love you long time, GI.

Change out the brake fluid.

Be aware that pushing timing to +10 may make the thing ping, especially if there's carbon buildup on the pistons/in the cylinder. Be cautious. Or, buy the next grade of gas! There's no doubt that pushing the timing will improve fuel mileage. A little bit of pinging occasionally is okay, but lots of it will destroy that golden little engine!

We love helping and talking about our trashy little cars. This will probably be the best car you ever own, so get ready to live the dream! <big grin>

-Pink

[Woodie83]

Back in the early 90's when Suzuki was putting free exhaust valves in a lot of engines, the factory determined that thick oil was one of the contributing factors. They originally said 5W-30, 10W-30, or 10W-40 were okay. They revised that to save the valves and the recommendation now is 10W-30 IF the temperature never goes below freezing, 5W-30 for any weather, with "5W-30 PREFERRED". That last quoted bit is specifically written in the owner's manual and service manual.

Common knowledge now is the thinner the better on oil as long as the bearings can take it. Thinner oil ABSOLUTELY gives you more power, better mileage, and easier cold weather starts. 0W-30 is great for our cars, 0W-20 is probably okay but the 20 scares me a little, I want to see ten guys use it for ten years with no problem before I'd go there.

[snowninja]

I just completed a "dry" compression test after letting the engine warm up for about 10 minutes. the first cylinder came in at 140 and i moved to the other 2 which were much higher. i then tested #1 again (I don't think I let it build up enough during the first test) and came up with 195. all within 5% of each other..

how do these look? any opinions/thoughts on test?

#1) 195psi
#2) 200psi
#3) 190psi

updated: I ran a second test turning the engine over only 4-5 times (first test was 8-10 times) and the readings were all between 160 and 165.

cheers,
snowninja

[snowninja]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet

Be sure to inspect the frame where the lower control arm mounts and make sure it's not rotted out and causing the axle to bind.

pardon my ignorance (still waiting for my service manual to show up) but how do i ID the lower control arm and if the frame is shot? i have a picture of the area here, can someone point this out to me?

http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...t=IMG_0652.jpg

cheers,
snowninja

[Johnny Mullet]

The compression test looks like it came out good.
The frames are known for rotting out on these cars is right what you posted as an image. Your's looks very nice, so no problems there. It would not hurt to oil that area of the frame every year for prevention.

[snowninja]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet

The compression test looks like it came out good.
The frames are known for rotting out on these cars is right what you posted as an image. Your's looks very nice, so no problems there. It would not hurt to oil that area of the frame every year for prevention.

great to hear, i'll take your reco on the oiling.. one other question around the oil pan - seems to be leaking some oil, the gasket goop was squished out and looks like it was a recent repair? maybe when they rebuilt the engine?? no clue - anyhow here is a pic. i think i'll put a wrench on all the bolts around the pan and see if any of them are loose.. anything else i should do besides resealing?

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...o/IMG_0650.jpg

cheers,
snowninja

[MrPink]

Woodie, you are correct, the owner's manual does show both 5 and 10W-30. Been a long time since I looked, and was relying on memory.

Originally Posted by Woodie83

Common knowledge now is the thinner the better on oil as long as the bearings can take it...

The people at Lubedev definitely differ with you on this point, as do others.

However, let's not take this thread off-topic. I've started a new one.

-Pink