My first car!

[z4xx0r]

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[MrPbody]

Welcome aboard! And know that the Fiero is absolutely the purest form of Pontiac since the 1930s! No other GM division built a car on that platform.

Also know, if it weren't for Fiero, we wouldn't have Saturn today. While there's no real similarity between them, Fiero was a manufacturing experiment to see if Saturn was feasable. Fiero was also the only (at the time) American car EVER built to Swedish safety standards. It's a cool car, to say the least. Don't let its' size fool you, it's a tank!

On that, I have a couple of questions regarding the identity of the car. A couple things you said don't "jive". Is it really a "GT"? That is, does it have the large "side curtains" on the rear, and tail lights that go all the way across? In '85, they didn't look all that different from the 2M models, but '86 and newer ALL did. They also had the 5-speed manual as "standard" and TH125 as an option. I've not seen an '86-up GT with a 4-speed. I've had two '86 2M6s with the 4-speed. I've learned to "never say never", but it seems a bit odd.

Lastly, be careful when "learning to drive a stick" in that car. Putting a clutch in it is NOT trivial. My son SMOKED a clutch in an '85 2M4 while "learning"... Try to find a more practical car to practice on... Maybe a bud or girlie has a manual trans in a little Jap car or something. Anything that is a bit more "forgiving" than the little P-body.

Happy 'yakkin'!!! (That's Ponti-YAKKIN...)

Jim

[Rampage69]

sounds like you got a (few) broken wire(s) in the wiring loom that runs between the door and the body where the hinges are. Can be a mission to re-wire sometimes. Good luck !

[z4xx0r]

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['88 Dread GT]

Originally Posted by z4xx0r

I'm positive this car is an original GT, but I'll decode the VIN here in a few minutes. It has the fastback, spoiler, removable sunroof, and the taillights that go all the way across. The Fiero has had two previous owners, one of which installed a Holley throttle body. The car has seen more than 104,000 miles, so I'm wondering if the transmission was replaced. I thought the Muncie 4-speed came standard on the '86 GTs, no? Anyway, I wish I had something else to practice a manual with, but I know no one with a manual car...

***EDIT***

I think I just confused you, or even more, myself. The taillight's housing is all the way across the back of the car, while the actual lights are on the sides. Unless... that's what you meant. I'm a newbie, I know this for sure! Here's what the VIN decoder said:

1986 Pontiac Fiero GT (Fastback) 2.8L HO V6
Manufactured in the USA by General Motors in Pontiac, MI.

Fiero 72128 of 83974 produced in 1986.

I thought the VIN would say something about the transmission; guess not though.

The VIN# only will tell which engine it is be it the 2.8 V6(9) or the 2.5 4cyl(R). Open your front hood and look on the fender well for a white rectangular sticker with 3 digit RPO codes on it. The 4spd was standard in '86 and if it's original to your car you should see either MM4 or M17 on that sticker. 1986 was also the first year the 5spd Getrag was offered for V6 SE's or GT's. That would yield the code MM5 or MG2.

Good luck with your new ride!

[Old Lar]

The MM4 was the four speed transmission offered for the early production of the 1986 GTs. There were ~6100 four speed 86 GTs made and ~2300 five speed 86 GTs produced.

If the car has 200K miles on the clock, it speaks highly of the reliability of your 2.8L That said 200K miles is a lot of miles on any engine, but I know of many of those engines going 300K without major problems. It is all about how well the engine was maintained.

My 2 cents is not to spend too much money on upgrades to a high milage 2.8L as it was not the strongest engine that GM produced. Spending money on routine maintenance can become expensive enough.

If the Fiero is your only car, it will become your daily driver, but any 22 year old car can have problems being used as a daily driver.

Saving for a swap will always be a challenge as there are so many potential engines out there to replace the 2.8. The big difference is the cost of the swaps, which can run into several thousands dollars.

[Blue Bowtie]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

... Fiero was also the only (at the time) American car EVER built to Swedish safety standards. It's a cool car, to say the least. Don't let its' size fool you, it's a tank!
Jim

I can vouch for that. I woke one morning to find this piled against my curb:



Unfortunately, the RF wheel was still straight. The VW Jetta that hit it while parked was wrinkled all the way to the A pillar, broken transaxle and all. The VW ended up being totalled, and the inebriated driver had even more problems.

Once the plastic was stripped, this was the extent of structural damage:



The fascia support WAS racked over about 1½", but was squared and aligned easily:



That box of new plastic in the last photo was bolted on, a new upper A frame and tie rod installed, and some new wheels, and it was ready for road duty again:



That was probably the best winter car I ever owned (with snow/skinnies on it, of course) and I liked it so much I ended up with three of them:



I would also caution you that abusing the clutch will result in a laborious chore of replacement. Despite what many manuals will advise, clutch replacement is possible without removing the engine. I've done three of them that way. If you ever do replace the clutch, plan on replacing the clutch throwout fork as well, since they are a weak point on the transaxle.

[MagicRat]

IMO the 2.8 V6 gets an undeserved bad reputation. Early 2.8's used to spin the #5 rod bearing if they were over revved repeatedly (I use 5000 rpm as red line). There was a change to larger rod bearings in mid-1985 to fix this problem.

Another concern is GM made 2 versions, the regular 110 - 115 hp version and the 135 hp version (found in Fieros, Camaro/Firebirds and the occasional Citation X11).
IMHO GM should have only used the 135 hp version. The 110 hp version was too weak for use in light trucks (Jimmy, S10 etc) and people ended us revving the hell out of them just to get adequate acceleration in heavier vehicles. Then they would have engine trouble and blame the engine and not realize they were expecting too much from it. When treated right these engines are very reliable.

IMO these problems will not affect your V6. Sure a swap is great but those swaps cost a lot, are complicated and usually result in a heavier engine which may affect handling. You can get a bit more power out of the V6, but the car is already a nice package.

[z4xx0r]

I can see how the 2.8 would be insufficient in trucks, but I think it will do fine in the Fiero. However, I will consider a swap if I need a new powerplant.

Before we go in and disassemble the Fiero, is there anything we should check that would cause ground or general electric problems? If so, we'll check those first.

[MrPbody]

Old Lar is just full of little facts, eh? Good info, sir! The 4-speed thing is a nice tid-bit. I don't think I've ever actually SEEN an '86 GT with one, but the code is the code! I learn things here too!

The 60 degree V6 is a GREAT engine. It was actually the mains that got larger, not the rods. The rear-drive version had serious crankshaft issues with the smaller mains. Even though Fireo is driven by the rear wheels, the drivetrain is a "front wheel" arrangment, simply installed forward of the rear axle instead.

3.1 from a later FWD car is a bolt-in affair (iron heads) and REALLY wakes the little car up. 3.4 is doable with minimal changes. There are numerous "kits" available to install other engine families. The most popular seems to be the 3800 Series III with the supercharger. That, coupled with the 5-speed from an early '90s Baretta, makes for a formidable sports car.

FWIW

Jim

[z4xx0r]

Boy, am I glad! The GT is fully operational, with the exception of more air in the tires. Dad and I fixed up the Fiero, and for some reason the Fiero wouldn't start when the steering wheel was adjusted all the way up... bring it down a notch and she'll fire right up. Oh, and the electrical problems? In my excitement over the beautiful Fiero, I completely forgot that the electrical system has fuses. That's right, a couple of burnt fuses were affecting my horn, radio, instrument lights, and other components. We still need to put some restorer in for the piston rings about my small smoky problem.

Besides fixing that all up, we cleaned up someone else's mess. The wires that connect the distributor to the coil were too long and jointed poorly, not to mention a little bit mixed up. We also finished cleaning up the air filter assembly. We installed a Spectre filter with a 60 degree bend and a connector piece, kind of like a cold-air system. The stock filter was still on there, along with that pesky hose that connects the filter canister to that gimpy little scoop on the left-hand side. It was more of a pain to remove than I thought it would be! We decided to remove the front part of the inner wheel well, which didn't come completely off anyway... The factory assembly is gone; that's the important thing.

On another note, I do wish the Getrag 5-speed transmission was in the Fiero, but it's no big problem.

I'm not sure how popular this swap is, but I bet it would fare well. LT1, anyone? If someone's done it successfully and seen good things come of it, let me know! Thanks everyone!

[spencer adamz]

ha my first car to accept mine does not work at all i got mine for free it is the same is yours 86 fiero white. the only reason mine was free is because it was in a minor crash no visual harm but i was investigating y my passenger door is crooked and i disassembled the whole front end to discover the front part of the frame is hella bent but i got a spare 89 fiero to repair it so go you for liking fieros

[MrPbody]

V8Archie (out West somewhere, I think) makes a "kit" to install SBC in the little P-body. I don't recommend it, as it uses TH125, which would be "suspect" behind a V8.

The Cadilac Northstar is a VERY popular swap, using the FWD unit from the Cad.

Spencer,

Sorry to tell you, but there were no '89 Fieros... '88 was the last year. And the underpinnings of the '88 are superior to all other years, so if THAT'S what you have, move the entire suspension into the '86. You'll thank me later.. (:-

Jim

[z4xx0r]

Now that the foremost mechanics have been taken care of, it's time to start modifying the Fiero. Tomorrow we're going to put some 20% window tint on the side windows, the rear window, and down about 7 inches from the top of the front windshield. My quarter windows have cracks in both of them, so I think I'll order some replacements I found on FieroWarehouse.com, and they come pre-tinted to about 20% as well. I've considered scoops to replace the quarter windows, but I don't see how they would improve aerodynamics or get more air into my engine bay. If I'm completely wrong, someone please let me know!

I want the Fiero to look great, but I want my modifications to all be functional as well.

[MrPbody]

Scoops and such are for "wannabes" on a middle-engine car. they won't help anything and will further "hurt" aerodynamics. The one exception would be the "Indy" sscoop that sets over the engine and "peeks" over the roof. It was used by the factory on the Indy "pace car" editioin, and can actually add some power.

Holley marketed a small insert that replaces the stock air intake "grill" on the side, if your air box is similar to the stock one. I don't know if Holley still lists the part, but some searching could find you a used one.

"The Fiero Store" is another great place to find replacement and enhancement parts for your car. Google it...

Keeping the car as "stock" looking as possible will not detract from its value, where any of the aftermarket "hang ons" will.

Jim