I am your Flag

[tasteph]

Please click on the following link:

http://llerrah.com/iamyourflag.htm

Have a safe and Happy 4th everyone!!!

[03cavPA]

[BNaylor]

Happy 4th of July all. And God bless America and our troops.

[Oz]

/vomit

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by Oz

/vomit

At least be creative Oz.

[Toksin]

Awww come on Oz, let them have their idol worship for a weekend

[ericn1300]

The American flag on the front of my house flys 24/7, properly illuminated and at half staff on presidential order.

I change it out with a new flag every Fourth of July, a tradition started years ago by an errant bottle rocket.

[Toksin]

Nice tradition


Can someone enlighten me as to why Americans have this rabid mad love/worship for their flag and/or president?

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by Toksin

Nice tradition


Can someone enlighten me as to why Americans have this rabid mad love/worship for their flag and/or president?

I love my country and our constitution but can't stand the president. sucks what the republicans have done to this countyr in the last 8 years

[Damien]

Yeah and I"m sure Obama will fix all...

It's more than one person or party. When ya get educated then start something. Till thenhave some beer and hot dogs and shoot off some fireworks. Don't hit someone though.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by Toksin

Nice tradition


Can someone enlighten me as to why Americans have this rabid mad love/worship for their flag and/or president?

Well one thing goes back to World War 1. When American entered the war the French and English wanted the Americans to join their forces and they all fight under a European flag. The American generals pretty much told them no and that Americans will fight under the American flag. Americans will fight beside other forces but not with them under another flag. This goes on even to this day.

Also if I remember right the whole flag/Independance Day/patriotic feeling didn't really start until after the War of 1812. When people heard of Andrew Jackson and his victory at New Orleans over the British it really boosted people's spirits. Also, Jackson was seen as a hero which got him into the White House.

[kris]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah and I"m sure Obama will fix all...

It's more than one person or party. When ya get educated then start something. Till thenhave some beer and hot dogs and shoot off some fireworks. Don't hit someone though.

No, but certain parties and or persons do effect the outcome.



The Loss of Independence
by Patrick J. Buchanan

Not until a year after Lexington did the Continental Congress muster the resolve to declare the 13 colonies free and independent states, no longer subject to Parliament or Crown.

Not for five years after July 4, 1776, did George Washington's army truly attain America's independence at Yorktown.

Even then, Washington and his aide Alexander Hamilton knew that the 13 states, while politically independent, were dependent upon Europe for the necessities of their national life. Without French ships and guns, French muskets and troops, the Americans could not have forced Gen. Cornwallis' surrender at Yorktown.

Cornwallis would have sailed away, as Gen. Howe had from Boston.

Indeed, absent the 1778 alliance with France, our Revolution would have been a longer bloodier affair and might not have succeeded.

At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, both Washington and Hamilton were determined to make America's political independence permanent, and to begin to cut the umbilical cord to Europe.

In the Constitution that came out of that convention, the states were prohibited from imposing any tariffs on the products of other states, thus creating the greatest common market in history, the United States of America. Second, the U.S. government was empowered to raise revenue by imposing tariffs on foreign goods, but explicitly denied the power to impose taxes on the incomes of American citizens.

And as Hamilton set the nation onto a course that would ensure economic independence, Washington took the actions and made the decisions that would assure our political independence.

First, he declared neutrality in the European wars that followed the French Revolution of 1789. Second, he sought to sever the 1778 alliance with France, a feat achieved by his successor, John Adams.

Third, in his Farewell Address, the greatest state paper in U.S. history, Washington admonished his countrymen to steer clear of permanent alliances and to stay out of Europe's wars. Rarely in the 19th century did the United States divert from the course set by Washington and Hamilton.

In 1812, however, James Madison, goaded by "war hawks" Henry Clay and John Calhoun, and ignoring the counsel of the Farewell Address, declared war on Britain and came near to seeing his nation torn apart.

Had it not been for the Duke of Wellington's preoccupation with Napoleon and Andy Jackson's rout of a British invasion army at New Orleans, America might have been split asunder. In 1814, New England was on the verge of seceding, and the British had in mind splitting off the vast Louisiana territory. As it was, Madison had to flee the Washington, when a British Army came up the Bladensburg Road to burn the Capitol and Madison's White House.

After peace in 1815, however, Madison signed the Tariff Act of 1816 to prevent British merchants from dumping goods into the United States to kill America's infant industries that had arisen during the war and to prevent British merchants from recapturing the U.S. markets they had lost.

For most of the 19th century, the nation followed the economic policy of Hamilton and the foreign policy of Washington -- and was richly rewarded. By the first decade of the 20th century, America was the most independent and self-reliant republic in all of history.

And by staying out of two world wars of the 20th century until many of the bloodiest battles had been fought, America emerged in 1945 economically and politically independent of all other nations.

During the Cold War, however, Americans came to believe that a temporary alliance, NATO, was necessary to prevent Joseph Stalin's empire from overrunning Europe and turning the balance of power against us. To help our wartime allies and former enemies Japan, Germany and Italy to their feet, we set aside Hamilton's policy and threw open the American market to the goods of Free Europe and Free Asia.

These should have been temporary alliances and temporary measures. Instead, they were made permanent.

No longer free of foreign entanglements, as Thomas Jefferson urged, we now have commitments to defend 50 countries. The old Hamiltonian policy of "Prosper America First" has given way to worship of a Global Economy, at whose altars we sacrifice daily the vital interests of our own manufacturers and workers.

"Interdependence" is now the desired end of the new elite.

And so we have become again a dependent nation. We borrow from Europe and Japan to defend the oil of Europe and Japan in the Persian Gulf. We borrow from China to buy the goods of China. We are as dependent on foreign borrowing as we are on foreign oil.

And the questions arise: If the men of '76, who led those small and vulnerable states, were wiling to sacrifice their lives, fortunes and sacred honor for America's independence, what is the matter with us?

Do we not value independence as they did? Or is it that we are simply not the men our fathers were?

[kublah]

The link quickly lost me at the "I am the emblem of the greatest nation on earth." line. That's not just flag worship, it's fat-headed conceit. I'm an American and I love my country, but in no way do I think everywhere else is second rate by default.

I don't know where the worship got started, but fuel has been thrown on the flames recently with our leaders insisting that the US is the great power of good in the world whose duty it is to free people of other countries from opression and rid the world of terror. Patriotism isn't something to be humble about anymore, it's like a high score on a video game where you get points for consecutive days with a flag pin on your lapel, and by not disagreeing in any way with the people in power.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by kublah

I don't know where the worship got started, but fuel has been thrown on the flames recently with our leaders insisting that the US is the great power of good in the world whose duty it is to free people of other countries from opression and rid the world of terror. Patriotism isn't something to be humble about anymore, it's like a high score on a video game where you get points for consecutive days with a flag pin on your lapel, and by not disagreeing in any way with the people in power.

I agree.
Sentiments like that website are designed to inhibit one of the greatest things about the US - freedom to criticise abd question the people and policies who run the nation.

"Honor me, respect me, defend me with you lives and fortunes"???
How is this reasonable? Honor, respect and defense efforts from the population must be earned by the people in power and are not to be demanded.

As for freedom won in the war of independence...... well, you did have freedom so long as you were not black, not native nor a woman......... oh, and owning property helped a lot.

Sure those problems are largely corrected now but only because people refused to listen to those in power at the time and fought for them.

I love the US, but dislike these particular sentiments on that site.

[kublah]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

"Honor me, respect me, defend me with you lives and fortunes"???
How is this reasonable? Honor, respect and defense efforts from the population must be earned by the people in power and are not to be demanded.

I think it was more referring to honoring and defending the principles that the flag stands for. I have no problem with that in theory, but it all means different things to different people in practice. Lately it seems to hinge on whether you think the people who pose the greatest threat to our freedom are wearing turbans and living in caves, or wearing suits up on capitol hill.

If our own struggles for independence and equal rights taught us anything, it should have been that all people should decide what is right for themselves, and if they want it bad enough they have to stand up and take it. They can be helped along the way but the goals must be their own, values cannot be spread at gunpoint.

Your sig reminded me of another quote-
"Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel will cling"
-Bob Dylan