Is this cheap?

[Titanoh]

Im not really "feelin'" it anymore (it being drawing). I love cars, and love to draw them but I go halfway through and just give up. I'd rather like to draw my own cars, but I also do not (as I know I can never own one). And also the scale drawing you guys seem to use, I don't really like that, it takes away some of the fun for me. I'd rather totally freehand it.
Now, im going to be a hipocrite, I was wondering if you guys would consider it cheap to, print out a picture of a stock car (say a Toyota Supra) trace the Supra onto a peice of paper, and from there desgin my own bodykit, rims, whatever else. I was thinking about doing this for awhile to get back into the swing of things and eventually get back to all freehanding it. Im into to "tuners" and I find it hard to get the angles so if I copy it down a couple times, get it like imprinted in my brain, then go back and do it freehand I could get it right.
It just amazes me how guys like Chip Fooze and others draw like they do.

Tell me what you think about my plan, good, bad?

[lemorris]

here we go again

I'm gonna go make some popcorn for this one

[bonzelite]

Originally Posted by Titanoh

Im not really "feelin'" it anymore (it being drawing). I love cars, and love to draw them but I go halfway through and just give up.

Do you mean pre-created cars that are already manufactured?

If you are bored then you need to come up with new ways to depict them.

If you lack basic skills of drawing in general, then you are avoiding, perhaps, raising the bar on your own skill level.

It's easier to give up then get better. Getting better is hard and often isn't "fun." I've never seen you or your drawings so I don't know what or where you are or where you come from.

I'd rather like to draw my own cars, but I also do not (as I know I can never own one). And also the scale drawing you guys seem to use, I don't really like that, it takes away some of the fun for me. I'd rather totally freehand it.

If you have BOTH skill and talent as a draftsman, then you should be able to do both: use photographic references AND FREEHAND AT WILL.

Ideally you should be able to create an illustration, too, from a real car or model --sitting in front of you--- as well as using a flat picture reference.

Having a photo or real car/scale model to work from should be an integral and interchangeable excercise.

Now, im going to be a hipocrite, I was wondering if you guys would consider it cheap to, print out a picture of a stock car (say a Toyota Supra) trace the Supra onto a peice of paper, and from there desgin my own bodykit, rims, whatever else.

No. How else can you design a SPECIFIC body kit for a specific car if you don't have the actual car as reference to work from? Designers do this all of the time.

I was thinking about doing this for awhile to get back into the swing of things and eventually get back to all freehanding it.

As I said, do whatever takes you to the next level. But make sure to go to another level. If your freehanding skills are lacking, then maybe you should regroup and go out with your sketchbook to a park and draw everything in front of you to loosen up.

Sketching freehand is like taking target shots at a shooting range. You need to learn to loosen up and just draw. Nothing is "at stake." Nothing is "perfect."

Drawing a rigid, crisp, "perfect" still life of a car or anything at all isn't necessarily very interesting or something to aspire to if you cannot draw in a relaxed, preliminary, sketch-like fashion.

If you post some of your recent work, I can look at it and tell you "where you are" right away. You will not be able to hide and I will already know many things about you by just glancing at your line work.

If you have no fear and want to learn, then post something and I will be happy to help you.

Im into to "tuners" and I find it hard to get the angles so if I copy it down a couple times, get it like imprinted in my brain, then go back and do it freehand I could get it right.
It just amazes me how guys like Chip Fooze and others draw like they do.

You are getting it, yes, but Fooze also has limits and I know what they are. He's impressive to watch as he seemingly pulls rabbits out of a hat ---but that is what he is doing --but very well.

He's practiced it for so long that it is 2nd nature and this is exactly what you must attain to. You must find your own voice, your own style, your own inspiration. He has found his and it is HIS.

You must begin a journey of discovery and find YOURS. It should not be to copy Fooze, even if in the beginning he inspires you to do so. You must eventually get beyond him and find your own path.

Take pieces of him and others and synthesize your own thing. But at the beginning, you will have no style, no form, nothing. And you shouldn't.

Being "stylistic" too early is very creatively inhibiting and rigid.

[lemorris]

can we add a filter so whenever some types the word "trace" Bonzelites eloquent response replaces it?

Great job Bonz!

[Titanoh]

Thanks Bonzelite, Im only 13 so I have a ways to go with skills, learning and such.
I guess I'll draw something and upload it. vbmenu_register("postmenu_5753473", true);

[PDQ VW]

Yeah great answer!


Reference is reference!
Post your stuff!

[bonzelite]

Thank you to those who have thus far replied.

When you use any references at all, be it from life, a scale model, a flat picture, you are drawing something in front of you. It's not from the imagination. You will either overlay tracing paper and get the basic outlines or you will use a grid or your eye to trace the lines and forms that are IN FRONT OF YOU. You must see it with your eyes and guide your arm. It's all the same thing.

There is nothing wrong with using tools and references to create your work. You must use what you have available. If I have to draw a giraffe, I will more than likely not go to the zoo to draw it. So I will need references.

And if the EXACT pose I am after isn't available, then I must "use my imagination" ---while using the references as a general guide. The mere act of choosing the angle and car is use of the imagination even if you initially trace the basic shape of the car or animal.

If I find a pose of a camel or llama that is the exact pose I need for my giraffe, but I have 2 or 4 pictures of giraffes in off-poses, then I must "invent" by looking at my giraffe pictures the pose I need based on the llama or camel.

This is called "synthesis." And you must then render the drawing. Getting the proportions and outlines of the car is only the scant beginning. Rendering the car can take up to 10X as long and be far more critical. A basic outline of the car with correct proportions and ellipses, with bad rendering --looks plain awful and will reveal a lack of skill immediately. You cannot really "trace" the rendering part; that is pure skill.


Same for anything.

If you need to draw a Ferrari GTO, more than likely you cannot have access to a real live GTO. You must invent it from references.

I've taken angles of cars and have adapted them to the car I want to depict. Most often, the exact angle, setting, lighting, composition, framing ... doesn't exist!

And if it does, it would take extreme luck or the rest of the year to hunt down that "one" image. So this is where your skill comes into play. It's more fun this way anyway because the image will be yours and only yours.

You have to play "God" a little bit and use artistic license. I've created drawings of cars that are referenced from about 7 photographs of all different kinds of cars ... or from angles of the same car that are not at all the angles I actually want.

A great tool is the 1:18 scale model and a camera. You can play God all night with angles and even lighting to an extent ---but then you must invent the setting and composition. So off you again looking at picture books and other things to get inspired. You can even take your camera out on a little adventure and just snap all kinds of shots of settings to place your car in.

I've used aircraft carrier lighting at night to source ideas for car drawings. It can be anything at all. That is the beauty of this path. It is endless.

[Roboduck]

Wow, Bonz.... Such eloquence, and more importantly, clarity. One can only get better through experience and repetition... which is the Mother of Study. We do learn more from our failures than our successes. I hope that those young up-coming artists inhale your comments and choose the more difficult path. Robo

[PDQ VW]

And more than anything--at 13 yrs old---there are things he needs to learn--names to things he already does--composition, perspective and rough sketches before final art. All things that lead to successful drawings and a part of the hard stuff. So often young artists drop a couple lines on a piece of paper and draw a final piece and are discouraged right away----it is not a sign of weakness to scribble down view ideas before going to final-or perspective lines---check out Lemorris' thread on sketches--awesome.
I worked in a studio with 200 artists and I'll tell you we killed alot of trees before finals were done.
Also know that perspective doesn't answer all the questions--it often cause weirdness that can be rectified with graphic perspective or just what looks good--to an educated (experienced) eye. It takes time and that is anothe hard part.

but there is lots of fun to be had!!!

[Blip]

This thread is full of great wisdom and insight.

All that I can add is my basic guidance...
...practice, practice practice, (I always have a sketch book with me) and
use "any tool" that helps you to improve your drawing skills.

[PDQ VW]

Oh and a silly little question here Titanoh
When you say "cheap" do you mean "cheat"??
My kids seem to get these word mixed up to and I don't know if it's coz the meaning of the word is morphing.

[Titanoh]

Originally Posted by PDQ VW

Oh and a silly little question here Titanoh
When you say "cheap" do you mean "cheat"??
My kids seem to get these word mixed up to and I don't know if it's coz the meaning of the word is morphing.

No I ment cheap, but being cheap, in most cases means your also cheating, and whenever you cheat, your being cheap

[drunken monkey]

the thing that stands out to me is that at 13, if you're not feeling it, maybe you should just go with your gut.

Put it this way, how many of us here that do draw felt like that at 13?
As far as I could remember, at that age, all I did was draw. I didn't have a plan or felt the need to make a plan; I just did it because that was all I wanted to do.

Sounds like me like you're almost making yourself draw and I'm not sure if that is actually a good thing.

On the other hand, all drawing is going make you better because at the heart of it, whether you trace, freehand, draw from life, whatever, you are still making a mark on paper with a pencil. That act will only make your handling of a pencil better.

Thing is, only doing one thing is never the best course of action, especially with this sort of thing. You need to do all sorts of drawing. Don't forget that the actual drawing part is just that, only a part of it. The act of seeing things is just as important.

[lemorris]

at 13 I didn't draw at all

I didn't start until I was 20.

For me it is learned. I put in a lot of time so I got a little bit better. It's the pursuit that drives us. Being only 13 and already interested, you may be well ahead of the game.

Keep your pencils sharpened and practice...at some point you will find yourself. Personally I feel like I'm still looking but then that may be the curse in and of itself. The ability to stick with something you suck at long enough to get to the point where you don't quite suck so much and being happy in that pursuit is where art is for me.

You just practice and don't worry about results...just draw...everything else will take care of itself.

- Lemorris

[drunken monkey]

my point is, if he did at one point love to draw but not anymore, then that might mean something.

In your case, you say you didn't start until you were 20 but once you got the bug, did you ever really, not "feel" it? I'm not talking finding it difficult or being frustrated at the results but really not even enjoying it as he is implying.
to the point where you needed to find a way to make yourself draw?

But I do understand what you are saying; just offering a different perspective.

I know that I am a tad obsessive about things so my obsessive drawing at 13 isn't really an indicator of anything but well, y'know, kids tend to do the things they like and if he aint doing it and he is even saying he doesn't like it then well.... I don't know.

To be honest, he hasn't really explained what is going in his head. And to give a much better reply a few things need to be answered.

What doesn't he like about what he is doing.
Why is he stopping halfway? Lack of commitment? Unhappy with the progress? Wants to do something new?

Again, using myself as an example.
If I was ever unhappy with what I was doing, I'd scrap it and start again. I've been known to re-start 5-6 times before I'm happy with something and some things, I'll draw again and again to improve silly things like maybe a better line on a part of a drawing or to tidy up an area where I made a few mistakes so the paper was "dirty".

I don't recall ever thinking "I don't like doing this".
If I ever was feeling negative, it would against myself, not drawing.