Windstar NO REAR LIGHTS

[adison6]

Hopefully someone can help me... I have read alot of posts and still no answer to my questions...

My rear lights are not working. (brake, signal, hazard, reverse)

I get power to the bulbs... showing 12V on 2 and 2V on one for each side.

Fuses are good, and front lights working (signal, hazard, daytime running, full lights)

Also, sometimes the gas gauge works, sometimes doesn't.

Also, power door lock will work on the first attempt only if I leave it for awhile... if i continuously keep pressing the unlock, if seems like the power drops each time to a point where all i hear is the FEM clicking... same if i do the lock part... every time i press it, the motor gets quieter and quieter...

One time the locks worked and I was able to get all the doors to open... then the back lights all worked... and then the next day, it quit again... just like before...

Any help is appreciated... email addy is [email protected] or reply tothis thread.

Thanks again for your time... I know the time it takes to post a reply when you don't really need to... so very much appreciated.

[Scotty89]

To me it sounds like the problem could be a bad connection with a ground somewhere. But ive never seen the window locks and rear lights share a ground. If i can get the year of your windstar I may be able to help you better.

[drzoidberg]

It does sound like a possible ground problem, since the locks work the first time and only weakly after that. An oxidized connection will often exhibit such behavior. The oxidized connection conducts enough to operate the motors the first time, but in doing so, the current causes heating which increases the resistance of the connection, reducing the ability of the motors to operate. Wait for it to cool down, and it can potentially work again as you described. I checked the wiring diagrams for the 98-2003 Windstars, and there were no apparent common components (relays, fuses, etc.) that I saw. Looks like the grounds are the only thing likely shared among all the things you're having problems with.

The Haynes manual suggests using a ground test tool to test ground connections. It seems to be basically a light bulb/battery unit that you connect between the suspect ground and a known good ground (after disconnecting the car battery). If the light bulb lights(and doesn't decrease in brightness gradually), then the ground is at least connected. If the light bulb doesn't light, then there is an open in the ground. A ground that tests "good" could still be oxidized and exhibiting the behavior described above, as the reduced effectiveness due to joint resistance changes may only show up at the high current levels used to operate the motors/lights and the few hundred mA from a test unit might not be enough to heat the oxidized connection to the point where it starts acting up. I've never seen/used such a tester, but perhaps they can be found at auto parts stores?

I recall reading in a post a while back about a troublesome wire run on the floor that is know for accumulating water or something like that, causing premature wire failures/corrosion. I can't remember the specifics, unfortunately.

[Scotty89]

Your ground test tool sounds like a continuity tester to me.

[drzoidberg]

Originally Posted by Scotty89

Your ground test tool sounds like a continuity tester to me.

Sure. ground test tool, continuity tester, galvanometer, ohmmeter, etc. All pretty similar.

[adison6]

First off... thank you all for replying so fast... this problem has been going on since we first bought this hunk of junk :-)... I think I know know why the guy sold it so cheap... anyways... like I said, I am very appreciative of the feedback.

It is a 2002 Ford Windstar. I bought a Hayne's manual before and also checked the diagrams... and there is not one common scheme... except the grounding out...

I get power to the connector to the bulb case and have also checked the power to the bulb casing... using an ohm meter I get 12V on two of the casings and 2V to the third casing (me thinks it is the reverse light?) Anyways, I am using a multi-meter to check... setting on voltage DC obviously.

I did notice that there is a rear electronic module... an expensive ($350) try to see if that causes it as they (ford dealership) won't do a refund once you buy it.

The other thing I did notice is that at the rear driver side panel opposite the tire jack/REM, there seems to be two relays that I don't know what they are for... they are black, square and look like the relays you would find under the driver's front side...

I kinda don't want to pull the entire minivan apart to trace all the wiring... but if that is the case, I guess I could do that... just wondering if there was a way to narrow down the search... once the wires go to the FEM or the REM, I don't have a pin-out of the FEM/REM to know which one I am testing.

The hayne's manual don't seem to give me the right wire coloring... so... now what..

Again, thanks for any time you guys/gals put into replying. You don't know how much it means to me. :-)

FFF (Frustrated Ford Freedom-Fighter)

[tripletdaddy]

Have you tested for ground inside your bulb sockets or back probed them for that? Then as you know, keep going backwards till you figure it out. Your van may have gotten enough water inside it to cause the necessary corrosion at the ground screw to give you this problem. I'd seriously consider putting in a new ground and either cut the old one or leave it in place. It won't hurt to have mutiple grounds to the same ground wire. Just be 100% sure you are connecting to the ground wire. At the very least, if you do this temporarily, you can pretty darn sure determine if that is your problem. At which point, I'd probably give up on finding the bad ground connection especially if it is buried under a bunch of stuff and can't easily be found. I would also make sure your battery connections are really good and tight and all of the ground connections from it to the frame, body and starter are all clean and tight.

[drzoidberg]

Originally Posted by tripletdaddy

Have you tested for ground inside your bulb sockets or back probed them for that? Then as you know, keep going backwards till you figure it out. Your van may have gotten enough water inside it to cause the necessary corrosion at the ground screw to give you this problem. I'd seriously consider putting in a new ground and either cut the old one or leave it in place. It won't hurt to have mutiple grounds to the same ground wire. Just be 100% sure you are connecting to the ground wire. At the very least, if you do this temporarily, you can pretty darn sure determine if that is your problem. At which point, I'd probably give up on finding the bad ground connection especially if it is buried under a bunch of stuff and can't easily be found. I would also make sure your battery connections are really good and tight and all of the ground connections from it to the frame, body and starter are all clean and tight.

Going along with tripletdaddy, having 12V at the bulb does not indicate a good ground. A corroded connector will still present the correct voltage to a high-impedance load, such as a multimeter which when measuring voltage typically has an impedance of 1 million ohms or more, which would only place a load of about 0.012 mA on the circuit. Even an extremely corroded terminal would likely be able to pull that off. Once you start drawing several amps with the low imedance bulb/motor loads on the circuit's return path (common ground), that's when you would start running into problems with corroded connectors.

Connecting a new ground temporarily/permanently would definitely tell you if that's your problem. As tripletdaddy said, if you do this, be very certain you are connecting only grounds together...otherwise you could do some unpleasant things to your electrical system. Definitely cheaper to blow a couple bucks on some wiring to check the ground than a new $350 REM though, at least as a first step.

[12Ounce]

As much as I like Haynes, and such, for general information ... they are all nearly useless for wiring info. There's just too much wiring stuff on a modern car to be included in a few pages.

The external lamps on your model are supplied power unlike cars of yesterday. On your model there is a rather "constant" 12v supplied, from fuses and relays, to one side of all the external lamps. On the opposite side of the lamps, ground is supplied by the REM only when the lamps are "on". So the REM supplies the ground path. (CAUTION: If a person were to mistakenly apply 12 volts to a grounding path conductor ... damage to the REM is almost gauranteed!)

Let's choose one set of lamps to work on and go from there. The license lamps are the simplest of them all. There should be 12 volts on the GY/RD conductor. ????

There should be zero volts on the DG/LG conductor when the lights are switched "on". ????

[holesaler99]

Did anyone figure out a solution for this problem?

[adison6]

Hi all... just an update for those who have helped me.

I figured that the Rear Electronic Module was busted... so I called around and found a price of $315... but the guy said that he could do a wiring diagnostic and checked the REM for $130... just in case it wasn't that. I elected to do that partly because the module cannot be returned once bought.

He did diagnose it...

Then he was going to charge me $700 ($455 part + labour)

I called Ford, they said that the part is only good for 2002, 2003 windstars... i went to pick your part and found one... a 2001... it was $6.15... thats right six dollars and fifteen cents... i figured it was worth a try... considering i can no longer trust the ford dealership...

guess what it worked.... i had to replace a bulb... they shorted one out on me, LMAO...

all the lights worked, dome lights work too, fuel gauge works, door locks work... except the driver door lock is still exibiting the loss of power bit...

How do I clen the connection to the door lock from it being "oidized"?


Thanks again to all those people who helped and hopefully it will help the post above mine... just go to pick your part and grab one... seven bolts... 10 minutes and you are good to go and save $700.

[tripletdaddy]

Could you clarify? It's not clear to me if your REM was tested or not or even existed. You said it was tested but what were the results? Is it really a bulb that was the problem? Not even the REM? What did you mean by "they shorted one out on me, LMAO..."?

Glad you got that figured out so inexpensively, or did it cost you $130 to diagnose? I can't believe he gave you a freebie.

On your corroded connector, I use micro-files, emory or plumbers sandpaper, and miniature wire brushes. Out of desperation, a medium strength acid could be used, but you need to immediately nuetralize it with a baking soda water mix and then a water flush. Just a few drops of muriatic or car battery acid could work, BUT don't get it on anything you care about, car, clothes,... Then coat the pins with petroleum or dielectric gel to prevent more corrosion.

[adison6]

Triple;

Sorry for the confusion, I was trying to post fast as I was late for an engagement. Here it is:

The ford dealership tested the REM for $130. I brought in the REM only to have them tell me that I needed to re-install it in the car and then they will only test it. While they tested, they burnt out a bulb. The results were that it was a defective REM... controlling the gas gauge, door locks, rear lights, dome lights...

I read a post in another forum that I you should check the SSP relays... two of them, SSP 3, SSP 4, are under the steering wheel, 2 are next to the battery... The FEM and REM, when the car is not running, will let the SSP know that it is not runing and in turn, make the door locks work. I checked the SSPs before I sent in the car for the $130 inspection.

The point of the story I guess is not to trust the Ford dealership... I called 4 different dealerships and each one gave me a different price on the same part... lowest was $315. Depending on which Ford dealership, they will tell you that the part needs to be programmed... (there is a sticker on the unit that "This is a programmable part". Funny thing is, when I open the bad REM, there are no IC's... just resistors, diodes, capacitors, and regulators... so how is this thing supposed to be programmed, LOL? ANother thing, some Ford will tell you that the REM is only specific to the year of the cars to a certain extent, there is a specific REM for the 2000 and 2001 windstar, and one for the 2002 and 2003 windstar. I took a REM out of a 2001 Windstar, that had more features on that windstar than mine, and was able to get everything working for my 2002 Windstar... for the price of part that the junkyard did not know existed... $6.15.... a large relay.

Where is the contact on the door locks? Is it the actuator that I have to clean?

Hope this helps...

[fastvideo]

I have the same problem since last week, can anyone tell me where to locate the REM, thx.

[adison6]

look behind the tire jack in the rear passenger compartment...