Gasoline vs. Alternative Sources

[GaryFenza]

What does everybody think about this topic? I think its all over exagerated and within a few years gas prices will drop, NOT to what they used to be, but around 3.00 to 3.30 a gallon....electric cars and hybrids dont pay off, when they break it will be triple cost to fix, not to mention when everybody buys into these electric and hydrogen cars, gas will not be in demand as bad, so the price will drop drastically, and gasoline cars will be suitable for the average person again.....i plan to drive gas until they no longer make it and it is impossible to find, which i dont believe will ever happen anyways. Any opinions on this matter?????

[Greenblurr93]

Im curious to know why you think we will "never" run out of gas.... which comes from oil.. which is a non renewable resource. So in time, yes, we will run out of oil and in turn will run out of gas. Will it happen during your life time? probably not, will it happen? yes..

I believe that it's important to find alternative fuel sources now, so that by the time gas is either so expensive the average person cant afford it, or we run out, there would have been enough R&D to make it affordable for most people.

[-Davo]

The Saudi's are paranoid that people will stop buying their products over the next 5 to 10 years they have increased, or are going to increase oil production from, currently at 500,000 (half a million) barrels per day, to 10 million barrels per day.

This increase will pretty much flood the market with their black gold prices will ease, but not drop a lot.

If petrol came down, even just 15 cents per liter, people will start driving again, and mass production over supply means mass profits, the Saudi's are stupid, they will see this, and lowering prices will prove them a monopoly on the market.

But oil will never be cheap again. Bring on alternate fuel!

[kublah]

Originally Posted by GaryFenza

i plan to drive gas until they no longer make it and it is impossible to find, which i dont believe will ever happen anyways. Any opinions on this matter?????

You don't drive gas, you drive a car. Gas makes an engine run, but that's pretty much the only good thing about it so I'm not sure why you'd be so attached to it. What if there was a viable non-petroleum fuel that could be put in the same engine with little or no modification? For example, scientists are currently trying to bio-engineer microbes that will produce the building blocks of ethanol using only photosynthesis. Fuel grown from the sun is pretty far out there, but who knows what will be possible a few years from now? If something like this were perfected and developed on a large scale, why would you insist on continuing to use oil?

[72chevelleOhio]

Originally Posted by kublah

why would you insist on continuing to use oil?

If someone had a classic car and wanted to keep it original, they would continue to use gas.

Whos to say we don't find the next big energy source and someone corners the market on that? We are in the same situation then.

I thought about making a pedal powered car with an 18 speed bicycles gearing, for running around the city. (fully enclosed and everything) And the lighting system could use the same technology as those "shake" lights. The movement of the car could power the lights.....

But I didn't get into this kinda shape by doing anything that requires physical labor......

[kublah]

Originally Posted by 72chevelleOhio

If someone had a classic car and wanted to keep it original, they would continue to use gas.

Good point, and I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to do that. For reasons like this I'm sure there will always be a market for gasoline as long as humans are pumping oil from the ground, I just think it would be cool if it were the secondary old fashioned option. Unfortunately probably the only way gas prices are ever really going to go down appreciably would be the huge slack in demand caused by introduction of a new fuel.

Originally Posted by 72chevelleOhio

Whos to say we don't find the next big energy source and someone corners the market on that? We are in the same situation then.

Maybe, but that wouldn't happen for a pretty long time as the transition between fuels would take years. And that possibility in itself isn't a reason not to do it, bad things about gasoline don't end at its current cost. Alternative fuels are usually just as much about reducing pollution as economy of price, so there are still other things to gain. And even if that alternative energy cost the same as gas and polluted just as much, at least it would probably be going to someone besides the middle east oil cartel for a while.

[J-Ri]

Hydrogen fuel cells using hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of water with electricity produced from photovoltaic cells. That's the best way! Then, the only way we'll be paying rediculously high fuel prices is if the sun burns out, and then we won't be paying them for long! For about $7,500 I can buy enough solar panels to provide 2x the power I use. That's about half price due to federal and state incentives. I don't understand why more people aren't doing this. Some idiots have car loans for $50,000 and are getting 10 MPG in the things they buy. Solar panels are too expensive for them though? I'm thinking pretty seriously about getting them for my house, and I'm moving in the next year or two. The production of hydrogen is inefficient, but when it's FREE, does that really matter all that much? Everyone needs to stop saying "someone should...", and actually DO SOMETHING.

Sorry, but if it's in the stress release forum, someone should sound pissed off!

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by J-Ri

Hydrogen fuel cells using hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of water with electricity produced from photovoltaic cells. That's the best way!

You can also make hydrogen fuel cells that use methanol.
In this way, the fuel can come from crops, not electricity, and it's much easier to store, as a liquid, instead of pressurized in big tanks at 5000 psi.

[kublah]

Fuel from algae. Dig it-

http://cc.pubco.net/www.valcent.net/...gro/index.html

[ExoticSpotting]

Alternative energy is important to get us off of foreign oil.

I couldn't care less about tree huggers and polar bears, I just think its wrong that we keep sending money to the middle east thinking there will be no consequences.

[BoB393]

I'm extremely interested in liquefied natural gas (LNG) as a fuel.
But with oil hovering around 50$ a barrel no one else is interested!
At least Honda makes an LNG model!

[wafrederick]

Hybrids will be phased out,waste of money.Toyota lost money due to sales to their hybrids and it is one model.Propane is very dirty for emissions.

[Scrapper]

no way gas will not be used. just think about it what get's up in space alot on all that fuel coming from oil. another thing you use ethanal in the cars that will burn straight ethanal but don't get the mls out of that crap than when using 10/% ethanal you get quite about more using that. but no i see no end in site of us using no oil to make the gas.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by wafrederick

Propane is very dirty for emissions.

Absolutely wrong.

Propane is an extremely clean-burning fuel. Unlike gasoline, complete combustion is easily attained without the use of emissions controls.

From Wikipedia:
In the presence of excess oxygen, propane burns to form water and carbon dioxide.

C3H8 + 5 O2 → 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + heat

Propane + Oxygen → Carbon Dioxide + Water

When not enough oxygen is present for complete combustion, incomplete combustion occurs when propane burns and forms water, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and carbon.

C3H8 + 3.5 O2 → CO2 + CO + C + 4 H2O + heat

Propane + Oxygen → Carbon Dioxide + Carbon Monoxide + Carbon + Water

Properly-tuned propane vehicles run extremely cleanly. For example, there are many thousands of propane-powered forklift trucks used in enclosed warehouses all over North america. Unlike gasoline, propane exhaust is more tolerable in enclosed spaces.

[richtazz]

Mostly, the alternative fuel issue is a matter of cost and distribution.

Hydrogen is used in the manufacturing of gasoline, so the problem with hydrogen cells isn't a lack of hydrogen, it's a lack of filling stations and the cost of building/installing the equipment.

Methanol takes almost as much energy to make as it produces (only about a 5% net gain using corn), delivers much lower MPG's, and is highly corrosive to fuel system components and painted surfaces.

The electric grid in the US is taxed about to it's max, so without a hugely expensive overhaul of the grid, widespread use of electric cars is not even feasable. Plus, fossil fuels are used to create electricity, so all electric cars would do is shift the fossil fuel use load from drivers to power companies.

Until someone decides to invest some serious $$$$ into distribution of practical alternative fuels like hydrogen cells or comes up with a new one, gasoline and diesel will be powering our vehicles for years to come.