1992 Delta 88 - climate control flashes?

[Sonix1]

Just today, my climate control numbers are flashing. It'll flash for about 2 minutes or so, then stay steady. Either outside temp, or if I turn something on, then whatever i've set the inside temp to be - will flash.
Seems to work fine though.

What does this mean?

Thanks

[brcidd]

Its an error code- It usually means it is low enough on refrigerant to disable the compressor-

[Sonix1]

Ah, thanks. That makes sense
Funny it took as long as it did.

I know this is an R12 system, never been converted. I have very little knowledge of A/C systems, but from what i've heard, with an R12 system i'm basically between a rock and a hard place.

It's a bear to convert over to R134a (expensive, and not something a DIY'er with hand tools could do), and you can't refill an R12 system as is.

Am I right, or is there a loop hole here?

Thanks

[brcidd]

You can still find R-12- just need to be licensed to buy it-- you can get that online for like $20- open book test-- see ackits.com search for certificiation-
You can also buy your R-12 cans online - just google it

[HotZ28]

If you’re A/C is “working fine” then I would not suspect the lack of refrigerant as being the cause of the flashing display. Low refrigerant is only one of the many faults that will cause a flashing display. As previously mentioned, if the fault is for “low refrigerant” the compressor will shut down. Early signs of low refrigerant would be frequent cycling of the compressor. Have you disconnected the battery lately? If so, that can cause a flashing display. Usually, if no real faults are detected after 50 ignition cycles, the flashing display will disappear.

If you should choose to go with a conversion in the future, it is not all that complicated, or expensive. Shops in my area will do a conversion to 134a for about 150-bucks. If you ever do the conversion, be sure to have them install a new expansion valve (orifice screen) and do a complete flush. There is not much extra labor involved (15-min) and the part is less than 5-bucks. Good insurance here! Many professional A/C shops are now using POE (synthetic) oil with the conversion, even though GM still recommends PAG-150. (GM is slow to accept change)! The POE oil has proven to provide better protection at higher temperatures than PAG. The these two oils are not fully compatible with each other, or the original mineral oil used in the R12 system, hence the required flush.

BTW, even if you should acquire the EPA MVAC-609 Certification, you would need proper recovery (evacuation equipment) and that is not cheap! Unless you plan to go into the A/C business, the Certification, tools & equipment required to do this job would be a waste of money!

[Sonix1]

No, I haven't disconnected the battery lately.
My A/C isn't really working fine. I mean no grinding or whirring or strange noises. It works like most 15yr old cars - barely. It's only slightly colder than just the vent setting.

Last I checked an R134a conversion went for upwards of $1000 after all the little fees. (I'm talking when the smoke cleared). Since they have to replace almost everything under the hood to do it. But hey, if it's only a few hundred dollars I might look more closely at that. I'll make some calls around here.

But if R12 is still available, is it an option to just refill it with that? Or would they still need to replace all seals and flush it as well?

[BNaylor]

Up in Canada that might be the case versus in the U.S. as pointed out which is obviously a lot cheaper. R12 in the U.S. depending on the state is hard to come by and very expensive. In comparison doing the R12 to R134 conversion is cheaper. Here is a good link to FAQs on R12 to R134a conversions.

Interdynamics

On the issue of POE versus PAG (Polyalkylene Glycol) oil in a R12 to R134 conversion I think the jury is still out on which oil is really superior and why certain auto manufacturers do not use or recommend it. Of the three commonly used POE is not necessarily superior over all as a lubricant. POE is used in R12/R134 conversions in the event any residual mineral oil is left in the system just in case because a flush no matter how good may not get it all out. Doesn't mix or react well with any residual chlorine/chlorides found in R12 based systems.

Also, there is "double end capped" PAG oil of the proper viscosity out that supposedly works fine in conversions and no reaction to any residual chlorine, aluminum chlorides and other chemicals but there are no guarantees.

[HotZ28]

Originally Posted by Sonix1

My A/C isn't really working fine. I mean no grinding or whirring or strange noises. It works like most 15yr old cars - barely. It's only slightly colder than just the vent setting.

Is the compressor cycling frequently? If so, you need to do a high/low side pressure test to see if the system is actually low, or if there is a restriction in the expansion valve.

8. Why does Interdynamics use Ester Oil instead of PAG Oil?

While both lubricants are used with R-134a, Ester is believed to be better for Retrofit systems because it is compatible with the residual mineral oil left after evacuating a R-12 system.
In addition, Ester oil is a preferred top-off oil because it is compatible with ALL PAG Oils and is much less hygroscopic, which means that it does not absorb as much water from the atmosphere as PAG Oils do. This moisture can create problems in a vehicle's A/C system.
Ester is also a truly Universal lubricant which has a Single Viscosity. PAG Oils come in a variety of viscosities which must be matched to the vehicle. GM vehicles use a high viscosity (150) PAG Oil, and non-GM vehicles use a low viscosity (46) PAG Oil. You cannot use a 100 viscosity PAG Oil as a "1 size fits all" universal lubricant. Ester Oil, however, is truly universal and will lubricate properly regardless of viscosity.

Interesting link you found there Bob! Good to know Interdynamics now supports my theory of using POE (polyolester-synthetic) oil vs PAG on conversions. I started using POE about 10-yrs ago and have never had a lubricant related compressor failure.