ethanol

[evildragon]

My local gas station has a notice saying on all the pumps that says "Contains 10% or less Ethonal".

Is that ok to feed to my LT1? Or should I find another station?

[deesandvees]

I think the more ethanol in the gas the faster it'll burn up. I'm no chemist though. Somebody will probably chime in with a more specific thorough answer concerning ethanol and the LT1 but that's what I've heard.

[silicon212]

All gasoline sold here in Arizona (at least here in Maricopa County) has been 'oxygenated' since 1989. They used to use a disgusting ingredient called MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) in over half of the blends, but that has all been replaced with ethanol at all stations (MTBE was banned because, like many environmental 'fixes', the cure was worse than the disease). There are brands that have been sold with ethanol since the beginning. Typically, a 10% to 15% mix.

To answer your question, your engine was designed to run on an ethanol fuel blend such as this.

[evildragon]

ok, thanks for the answer..

[Blue Bowtie]

I've been using E-10 since 1976. The only problem I ever had was contamination in the fuel bowl of the 2GC Rochester carb I had on a '67 Pontiac. The alcohol cleaned all the scale out of the tank, and the mechanical fuel pump pushed it enough to unseat the filter and fill the carb (plugging the main jets). After a good cleaning and new (external) filter, I never had another problem. That's been many cars, boats, snowmobiles, and other engines ago. All the cars I set up and tune get a slight timing curve adjustment and fuel adder to compensate for the ethanol found almost everywhere around here. I use E-85 (85% ethanol) in my '96 half-truck.

[PeteA216]

Here in upstate, NY the only stations that "contain 10% ethanol" is Sonoco. I never get it anymore because, here at least, it's no cheaper than normal gasoline and I get about 2 - 4 less MPGs on it. I always noticed that for some reason whenever I'd get gas from Sonoco I'd go through the gas like nothing. Classmates in my highscool noticed the same thing as even did my father. I noticed one day the "10% ethanol" sticker, and some students and I did a little reading on the pros and cons of ethanol. Cons included, among other things, reduced fuel economy, and harder starts in the winter months.

[mike561]

The mobil station by my house just got new pumps and also has that sticker now

[GreyGoose006]

ethanol does have less energy content per unit than gasoline, so the reduction in MPG is to be expected. the only real benefit to ethanol is that every gallon of ethanol we burn means we are one gallon less dependant on those ragheads in the middle east...

as for if its safe, around here, its all you can get, so i'd hope so.
you DONT want to go using e-85 though, unless your car is specifically made for it.
e-85 has way more ethanol than gas (its 85 percent ethanol) and as a result, you would have to copletely re-jet your carb or put bigger injectors in your FI unit whatever it may be.

[96capricemgr]

ethanol is another example of "cure is worse than the disease"

Does nothing to wean our dependance on foreign oil.

[mike561]

I miss using 93 oc. but never noticed a difference though, my supercharged pontiac required only 93 oc.

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by 96capricemgr

ethanol is another example of "cure is worse than the disease"

Does nothing to wean our dependance on foreign oil.

Especially since we only get 50% of our oil from Middle Eastern sources. There was a story in our local paper yesterday about ethanol. The figures came from a Cornell study. The report said that ethanol acts as a detergent, loosening rust and debris and other gunk inside a gas tank and fuel lines. This debris clogs fuel filters and results in restrictive fuel flow, causing stalling and hard starting.
Ethanol has corrosive, solvent like characteristics that damage the resins in fiberglass fuel tanks and some plastic and rubber materials like O-rings and fuel hoses.Engines manufactured before 1990 need to have alcohol resistant fuel hoses.
Ethanol is "hygroscopic" meaning it absorbs water and will mix easily with water than gas, which can cause your engine to run badly or not run at all.
It also has a relatively short shelf life of 6 weeks, and the octane begins to decrease after that time period. This deterioration is more of a concern in those engines which are stored, including vehicles and boats.
It takes 1.3 gallons of oil to produce just 1 gallon of ethanol.
So much for using corn to produce an inferior product while at the same time increasing our food costs for products which rely on corn, or are somehow associated with it in it's production.

[Blue Bowtie]

Increasing food prices? Takes more oil to produce than it yields? Whatever you think you might understand about fuel ethanol might not be a complete picture, but more of a slanted partial view. Had the market not been available, a lot of the corn planted last year would not have been planted. There were 15 million more acres of corn planted last year than the prior year. The net was a harvest of 16 million more acres (less of it went to silage) with a net of two more usable bushels per acre than the previous year. That's not only because it was a decent growing year overall, but because lower grade corn can be used to make mash for ethanol. Elevators and farmers used to burn corn which wasn't fit for human nor animal consumption, after it sat for months in elevators rotting and being eaten by rats, and now most of that can be used.

Further, of all that acreage, 2.6 billion additional bushels were produced in 2007 compared to 2006, but only a half billion additional bushels were used for ethanol production. That means that there was nearly a billion bushels MORE than 2006 to make corn sweeteners, meal, feed, and starches. Even better, after the mash is used for ethanol production, it can be used for livestock feed. In 2006, the ethanol industry re-used 24.2 million TONS of animal feed supplement from corn mash. In 2007, that increased by over 5 MILLION TONS to a total of 29.4 million. The only real cost to the feeder cattle industry for that supplement is the transportation cost, so who is to blame for the higher cost of free livestock food? Perhaps the cost of diesel at $4.50/gallon has something to do with that, and not the cost of corn (which has NOTHING to do with diesel). Perhaps the fact that China and India are stockpiling diesel fuel has something to do with that, along with speculative investors driving up the costs like the real estate speculators did i Florida and California a few years ago, or how they artificially drove up the prices of useless tech stocks in the '90s.

If you want someone to blame, try pointing a finger at the companies handling the commodities, not those producing them. I'm thinking that someone is shoveling something more than scoops of corn here.

Additionally, the economics would tend to disagree. If it took more oil to produce ethanol than hydrocarbon fuel, ethanol would cost a lot more. Since it costs 70¢ less than gasoline (here), and only a few cents of that is federal subsidy, I'm a little confused (nothing new for me).

If you want to be as confused as I am, go to the UDSA site and look at the production of and uses for corn, and see where the real problem lies.

http://www.nass.usda.gov/QuickStats/...al_All.jsp#top


You're absolutely right about alcohols being hygroscopic, but that doesn't affect storage life in a closed container (automotive fuel tank). As a matter of fact, ethanol is so hygroscopic that it is frequently used in winter to eliminate water from fuel systems. Gasoline engine drivers used to consider that a good thing, but would pay upwards of $9/gallon for alcohol in little containers to get the job done. You don't have that problem with E-10.

When Iranian and Venezuelan oil is $130/barrel, exported grains should be $130/bushel. I can walk and eat, but oil exporters might have a little trouble driving while starving. And just in case you were wondering, the U.S. and Canada exported just as much corn in 2007 as they did in 2006.

2¢

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by evildragon

My local gas station has a notice saying on all the pumps that says "Contains 10% or less Ethonal".

Is that ok to feed to my LT1? Or should I find another station?

from the instructions that came with my vehicle it states this Lt1 engine can use 10% ethanol gasoline...i also found that the use of octane over 89 does not benefit this engine...unless changes are made to the computer..


mbte was removed because it did not break down and got into the ground water up here in the northeast very badly...bush did not like the fact the the states were to ban this cancer chemical...because his oil buddies did not want to change over.. this alcohol is effecting my small engines the gas stabilizer don't work well ....

[Blue Bowtie]

I'm storing lawnmowers, a chainsaw, two snowblowers, a two-stroke trimmer, a DR brush trimmer, an outboard, several cars, and an emergency generator with E-10 and Sta Bil. They all seem to work fine every season. Here's a hint from 20 years experience doing this - Prepare the engine(s) as you normally would for storage, with oil/filter changes, plug cleaning, etcetera. Try keeping your fuel tanks for storage only about half full, add the recommended amount of fuel stabilizer for that amount of fuel and just a few squirts more, then add two stroke oil to make about a 100:1 mixture. Run the engine briefly, fog the cylinder(s), and it should be ready to go the following startup.

[silicon212]

Atlantic Ritchfield Co. was the largest producer of MTBE in Arizona. Yet, none was ever sold in any ARCO blends - all of the ARCO gasoline used ethanol.