A Hypothetical Question, Perhaps! ;)

[murraydeschot]

Based on the burgeoning values of ROAD F1's. What would be the guesstimated total cost of the following be ...

Aquiring a Road F1,
McLaren making the following changes ...
LM spec Engine
Full Repaint
High Downforce Kit
LM wheels
New Leather Interior
HID Lighting
Full service.

Added to that. Based on an average 6,000 km (3720 miles) per year useage (i.e. high-days and holidays), what would the annual servicing costs work out at?

As a final note. Would conversion from standard car to hybrid have a negative effect on future equity values, do you think? Or would it be better to retain a standard spec, original coloured car for long-term investment purposes?

I'm addressing this question to yourselves as I recognise this to be the INDEPENDENT, unadulterated McLaren F1 cognocenti on this planet!

P.S. If I, he, she. the "hypothetical potential owner" actually "did" make the move towards F1 ownership ... hypothetically-speaking of course... a few of you WOULD be invited for video shoots, photo oppotunities and blasts across "the border" onto the Fatherland's Autobahn, due to your shear unmitigated passion towards the subject in hand! Hypothetically-speaking of course...

[svxit]

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

Based on the burgeoning values of ROAD F1's. What would be the guesstimated total cost of the following be ...

Aquiring a Road F1,
McLaren making the following changes ...
LM spec Engine
Full Repaint
High Downforce Kit
LM wheels
New Leather Interior
HID Lighting
Full service.

Added to that. Based on an average 6,000 km (3720 miles) per year useage (i.e. high-days and holidays), what would the annual servicing costs work out at?

As a final note. Would conversion from standard car to hybrid have a negative effect on furure equity values? Or would it be better to retain a standard spec, original coloured car for long-term investment purposes?

$4.2 mil USD? This is a rough swing of sorts, based on the current values of road cars and on what I recall where freshening-up/maintenance costs on #038 before it was sold. From the eBay posting at the time, it was mentioned that $300K USD was spent to put it in as-new condition, and that was a few years ago IIRC.

I don't think upgrading from standard road car fare to near-LM would have too much of an effect as, outside of classic old Ferraris, Mercedes, Bugattis, et al., the F1 is most probably the best investment one can make in an automobile. Here in the DC/MD/VA area, I'd say F1s hold their value (and appreciate) far better than real estate!

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

Based on the burgeoning values of ROAD F1's. What would be the guesstimated total cost of the following be ...

Aquiring a Road F1

£1.3 million +

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

McLaren making the following changes ...
LM spec Engine

£250,000.00 (?)

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

Full Repaint

£60,000.00

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

High Downforce Kit

£65,000.00

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

LM wheels

£15,000.00

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

New Leather Interior

£10,000.00

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

HID Lighting

£8000,00

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

Full service

£30,000.00

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

Added to that. Based on an average 6,000 km (3720 miles) per year useage (i.e. high-days and holidays), what would the annual servicing costs work out at?

£30,000.00 per year

so, ~£2m plus servicing costs per year

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

As a final note. Would conversion from standard car to hybrid have a negative effect on furure equity values? Or would it be better to retain a standard spec, original coloured car for long-term investment purposes?

Personally, I think a car with the HDF kit on it would be a touch more than one without it, only to justify the cost of getting the HDF kit on it in the first place. If it's for investment purposes, I'd buy 2 - one of each

Or why not just buy #018

[murraydeschot]

[quote=svxit]the F1 is most probably the best investment one can make in an automobile.{/QUOTE]

From this hypothetical perspective, of course, I concur. Fully-speccing an F1 to LM spec, I think may increase it's values, as unless Ron Dennis et al incur another $100 Million Dollar fine in the next couple of years, I dont think they will be auctioning of the costs of their wares on Ebay, for exmple.

The Bugatti Veyron, as a SIMPLE! (MAN"S) choice however, has a projected 'run' of 350 examples, and given both VAG groups strength at marketing and an order booking in Holland (a small nation, comprising 17.5 million inhabitants), in December 2007, at eight Veyrons - One Non-Dutch Registered F1 .... has a suggestion where the serious exclusivity of the super SUPER car ownership should turn ... but the question remains, what are the acqusition and annual costs likely to be?

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by svxit

Here in the USA, I'd say F1s hold their value (and appreciate) far better than real estate!

EFA We have for the past few months been experiencing the same fall in house prices over here, yet the F1 still appreciates in value

[svxit]

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

From this hypothetical perspective, of course, I concur. Fully-speccing an F1 to LM spec, I think may increase it's values, as unless Ron Dennis et al incur another $100 Million Dollar fine in the next couple of years, I dont think they will be auctioning of the costs of their wares on Ebay, for exmple.

The Bugatti Veyron, as a SIMPLE! (MAN"S) choice however, has a projected 'run' of 350 examples, and given both VAG groups strength at marketing and an order booking in Holland (a small nation, comprising 17.5 million inhabitants), in December 2007, at eight Veyrons - One Non-Dutch Registered F1 .... has a suggestion where the serious exclusivity of the super SUPER car ownership should turn ... but the question remains, what are the acqusition and annual costs likely to be?

I think the Veyron's running costs will be lower, especially when you factor in things like not having to replace the clutch every 3K miles or so (for someone who would drive the cars more than 5K miles/annum). The nearest modern supercar that comes to mind, the Enzo, certainly has lower acquisition and running costs. And as great as those other two are, I don't think they'll appreciate over time the way the F1 has and will continue to. The Enzos went for $650K new and for years have been hovering around $1-1.5 mil. On the Veyron, while I don't think they'd depreciate per se, aside from special editions like the Hermes cars which would appreciate, they will probably hold steady in value or appreciate a bit. Also, on the Veyron, I feel that it's not as strong as the F1. By that I mean, if you pranged one, it would most likely have to be totaled out. With 700 radiators, 500 intercoolers and 20 turbos (exaggerations, of course), it's so densely packed, it must be a God awful mess to repair after an accident.

In any event, even though cars like the Veyron and Koenigsegg have surpassed the F1's numbers (the latter barely), I don't think they'll be as ... 'special' ten or twenty years from now. Granted, if someone gave me a Veyron or Enzo I certainly wouldn't say 'no,' but, after a few months' driving, they'd make a fine down payment on an F1 road car.

[murraydeschot]

opcorn:

Originally Posted by svxit

I think the Veyron's running costs will be lower, especially when you factor in things like not having to replace the clutch every 3K miles or so (for someone who would drive the cars more than 5K miles/annum). The nearest modern supercar that comes to mind, the Enzo, certainly has lower acquisition and running costs. And as great as those other two are, I don't think they'll appreciate over time the way the F1 has and will continue to. The Enzos went for $650K new and for years have been hovering around $1-1.5 mil. On the Veyron, while I don't think they'd depreciate per se, aside from special editions like the Hermes cars which would appreciate, they will probably hold steady in value or appreciate a bit. Also, on the Veyron, I feel that it's not as strong as the F1. By that I mean, if you pranged one, it would most likely have to be totaled out. With 700 radiators, 500 intercoolers and 20 turbos (exaggerations, of course), it's so densely packed, it must be a God awful mess to repair after an accident.

In any event, even though cars like the Veyron and Koenigsegg have surpassed the F1's numbers (the latter barely), I don't think they'll be as ... 'special' ten or twenty years from now. Granted, if someone gave me a Veyron or Enzo I certainly wouldn't say 'no,' but, after a few months' driving, they'd make a fine down payment on an F1 road car.

Personally speaking, having seen a couple of Veyrons face-to-face, I find the Veyron too fussy in it's detailing, albeit exquisitely built and technically brilliant, but WAY too ostentatious in it's packaging. There can be VERY few places on this planet (only four spring to mind - on Rodeo Drive, in Monaco, in front of the Carlton Cannes or in Verbier) where Veyron drivers wouldn't be regarded as rich show-off w!$@&%s and receive hateful looks from most onlookers.

I actually wrote a letter to the editor of Car magazine (UK) after George Kacher's "Three Day's With The Veyron" ...

"Dear Sir

Firstly, please let me applaud you on the new format and ‘look’. Now it’s not only the quality of content that sets your magazine apart on the newstands, you’ve distanced yourselves from the ‘norm’ of the mainstream motoring press in presentation terms as well. Congratulations.

That aside, onto the main point I wish to address - Bugatti aka Volkswagen’s behemoth, the Veyron 16.4.

I was probably not alone in being captivated by your initial impressions of the first drive in a Veyron last year. I pored over the text: the upping-the-ante vital statistics, the history of the car’s troublesome development, the setting of new standards in otherworldly hypercar terms, etc., etc.

However, George Kacher in his “Three Days With The Veyron” feature in your latest edition, brought the grim reality home – the bubble burst – leaving me with the deflated feeling of anticlimax, as well as the nagging question, “What IS the point of the Veyron? “ in my mind.

Whilst George mentioned, on several occasions, obscenely low fuel consumption levels, that goes hand-in-hand with hypercar ownership surely? The fact that a few oil wells will be depleted in the case of Volkswagen selling it’s publicised 300 Veyrons, is not something that will prey too heavily on your ‘average’ Veyron owner’s mind I would imagine.

My point is, where is the practicality in the Veyron? Rowan Atkinson, in your Supercar edition commented “… it’s infinitely less practical than the McLaren F1 – I like using my cars and there’s no room in the Veyron”. George Kacher estimates around 30 litres of baggage room, and the Veyron sales brochure says absolutely nothing on the subject whatsoever! What, may I ask, is your average tycoon going to do with his/her Veyron? It can’t conceivably be used as a car for a romantic weekend somewhere … unless FedEx is called to transport a change of underwear (probably obligatory after a journey in the Veyron!) and other clothing, toiletries, etc. to the destination beforehand. With it’s gargantuan mass it’s most obviously not a track-day star car. So … what is it? What is the real purpose of the Veyron?

Call me cynical, but the Veyron appears to be merely a hugely expensive marketing move by Volkswagen to develop and launch an engineering showcase, the Zenith of a huge corporation’s technical wizardry – to stamp in LARGE letters “We are Volkswagen and this is what WE can do”. A hugely expensive marketing move that a select few will gladly pay towards no doubt.

After my brief dalliance with the Veyron, I’ll return to adoring my ‘old flame’. It’s also a car developed without compromise. A passionate project nurtured by like-minded individuals with the sole intention to create the ultimate driver’s car. A car whose purpose was to excite and to explore the driver’s abilities. A car that has won races at the highest echelons of motorsport. A car that can comfortably carry three passengers, in cosseted luxury equal to the Veyron’s, and still have room for weekend cases, or ditch a passenger and carry your golf clubs too.

The car? The McLaren F1. still the World’s undisputed ultimate hypercar.

With my kindest regards,
Murray de Schot"

Koenigsegg, is, according to a friend of mine, who is a Dutch TV producer of car and motorcycle programmes, and has driven one - a big, fast, badly-built Swedish kitcar.

Ferrari Enzo ... a bit to fragile and way too ugly!

Zonda ... lovely looking car ... from the outside. The interior styling however, again in my opinion, is ghastly!!! Retro 30's/50's interior detailing on a 21-st century stylish hypercar is a strange oxymoron.

I've watched the supercars of the latter years of the 20th century rise and fall in value with the ebbs and flows of market trends. From pure speculators to genuine enthusiasts, some people have lost SERIOUS cash 'investing' in Ferrari F40's, Porsche 959's, Bugatti EB110SS/GT's, Jaguar XJ220's, et al.

It seems that the F1 (due to it's limited availabilty and sheer brilliance in every aspect) remains the only one that has an real appreciative value.

As a footnote, and I'm kind of paraphrasing Richard Hammond here to be honest, on his comments about my soon to arrive Mercedes G-Class, the McLaren F1 is probably the only supercar that would be equally welcomed in front of a warehouse rave as at a royal garden party.

[ArchangelGTR]

Originally Posted by murraydeschot

opcorn:

Personally speaking, having seen a couple of Veyrons face-to-face, I find the Veyron too fussy in it's detailing, albeit exquisitely built and technically brilliant, but WAY too ostentatious in it's packaging. There can be VERY few places on this planet (only four spring to mind - on Rodeo Drive, in Monaco, in front of the Carlton Cannes or in Verbier) where Veyron drivers wouldn't be regarded as rich show-off w!$@&%s and receive hateful looks from most onlookers.

I actually wrote a letter to the editor of Car magazine (UK) after George Kacher's "Three Day's With The Veyron" ...

"Dear Sir

Firstly, please let me applaud you on the new format and ‘look’. Now it’s not only the quality of content that sets your magazine apart on the newstands, you’ve distanced yourselves from the ‘norm’ of the mainstream motoring press in presentation terms as well. Congratulations.

That aside, onto the main point I wish to address - Bugatti aka Volkswagen’s behemoth, the Veyron 16.4.

I was probably not alone in being captivated by your initial impressions of the first drive in a Veyron last year. I pored over the text: the upping-the-ante vital statistics, the history of the car’s troublesome development, the setting of new standards in otherworldly hypercar terms, etc., etc.

However, George Kacher in his “Three Days With The Veyron” feature in your latest edition, brought the grim reality home – the bubble burst – leaving me with the deflated feeling of anticlimax, as well as the nagging question, “What IS the point of the Veyron? “ in my mind.

Whilst George mentioned, on several occasions, obscenely low fuel consumption levels, that goes hand-in-hand with hypercar ownership surely? The fact that a few oil wells will be depleted in the case of Volkswagen selling it’s publicised 300 Veyrons, is not something that will prey too heavily on your ‘average’ Veyron owner’s mind I would imagine.

My point is, where is the practicality in the Veyron? Rowan Atkinson, in your Supercar edition commented “… it’s infinitely less practical than the McLaren F1 – I like using my cars and there’s no room in the Veyron”. George Kacher estimates around 30 litres of baggage room, and the Veyron sales brochure says absolutely nothing on the subject whatsoever! What, may I ask, is your average tycoon going to do with his/her Veyron? It can’t conceivably be used as a car for a romantic weekend somewhere … unless FedEx is called to transport a change of underwear (probably obligatory after a journey in the Veyron!) and other clothing, toiletries, etc. to the destination beforehand. With it’s gargantuan mass it’s most obviously not a track-day star car. So … what is it? What is the real purpose of the Veyron?

Call me cynical, but the Veyron appears to be merely a hugely expensive marketing move by Volkswagen to develop and launch an engineering showcase, the Zenith of a huge corporation’s technical wizardry – to stamp in LARGE letters “We are Volkswagen and this is what WE can do”. A hugely expensive marketing move that a select few will gladly pay towards no doubt.

After my brief dalliance with the Veyron, I’ll return to adoring my ‘old flame’. It’s also a car developed without compromise. A passionate project nurtured by like-minded individuals with the sole intention to create the ultimate driver’s car. A car whose purpose was to excite and to explore the driver’s abilities. A car that has won races at the highest echelons of motorsport. A car that can comfortably carry three passengers, in cosseted luxury equal to the Veyron’s, and still have room for weekend cases, or ditch a passenger and carry your golf clubs too.

The car? The McLaren F1. still the World’s undisputed ultimate hypercar.

With my kindest regards,
Murray de Schot"

Koenigsegg, is, according to a friend of mine, who is a Dutch TV producer of car and motorcycle programmes, and has driven one - a big, fast, badly-built Swedish kitcar.

Ferrari Enzo ... a bit to fragile and way too ugly!

Zonda ... lovely looking car ... from the outside. The interior styling however, again in my opinion, is ghastly!!! Retro 30's/50's interior detailing on a 21-st century stylish hypercar is a strange oxymoron.

I've watched the supercars of the latter years of the 20th century rise and fall in value with the ebbs and flows of market trends. From pure speculators to genuine enthusiasts, some people have lost SERIOUS cash 'investing' in Ferrari F40's, Porsche 959's, Bugatti EB110SS/GT's, Jaguar XJ220's, et al.

It seems that the F1 (due to it's limited availabilty and sheer brilliance in every aspect) remains the only one that has an real appreciative value.

As a footnote, and I'm kind of paraphrasing Richard Hammond here to be honest, on his comments about my soon to arrive Mercedes G-Class, the McLaren F1 is probably the only supercar that would be equally welcomed in front of a warehouse rave as at a royal garden party.

Quoted for amusing brilliance.

[Le Man]

Buying and running an F1 is very expensive business.

Greg, Add in a petrol tank and a clutch change (short life service parts) plus a few invisibles which allways seem to pop up on the invoices. I was once informed, a windscreen would cost an owner £10,000 gbp to have replaced.

I,m not to sure if you would actually gain on the investment. But you will not lose out, like on some of the supercars you have mentioned.

So Murray, when do you get your F1? Hypothetically speaking of course

[steve_pan]

When someone has that much money to buy a supercar the cost on service and parts are irrelevant

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by steve_pan

When someone has that much money to buy a supercar the cost on service and parts are irrelevant

Yes, but they all add up to erode any capital gain on the investment.

An excellent quote from Quinten Wilson, "The cars the star" program

"once you have purchased your F1, the bills do not stop coming in, invoices that would make even the Duke of Westminster wince"

Trust me, I have seen some of the invoices from McLaren, it made my jaw drop

[basman007]

two threads with F1 and Holland in the same post!! :-O
Is something about to happen?

hypothetically..... i'd be more than interested in a photoshoot

[carbuilder2002]

Mr Hurst01 is very close if not spot on as his prices run very near what mclaren quoted me for bringing 11R back into the UK and equiping it for regular use.
Me thinks Mr Hurst01 has inside information lol.

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by carbuilder2002

Mr Hurst01 is very close if not spot on as his prices run very near what mclaren quoted me for bringing 11R back into the UK and equiping it for regular use.
Me thinks Mr Hurst01 has inside information lol.

Mr. Hurst01 [Greg] wishes!!

[hurstg01]

One of my contacts 'close' to the F1 () has just emailed me. Apparently my guesstimates are generally pretty fair with the exception of the annual servicing costs, with the reality being less than what Clarkson stated [approx. £25k-£30k] in his F1 report. Even a "major" service such as 20k or 40k miles, including VAT, comes in less than £30k. If the assumed annual mileage was 6000km the annual service would average less than £10k. The things that will bump up this price are the lifed (by age or mileage) items. In a routine normal service, with no parts replaced (except common consumables such as lubricants and filters), the cost should be less than £5k.