Horrible Squeek and Missing Coolant

[HamySeven]

I have a 96 Windstar, 3.8L that has developed a horrible squeek squeek sound that I think comes around the cam shaft flywheel. I have checked the exhaust, since it sounds possibly like a loose exhaust, but there is nothing loose. I dont' hear it when I excelerate. I hear it the most after the car has warmed up and I am sitting still in idle.

Also, I have a mysterious coolant leak. I fill the reservoir probably every other day. I see no puddles under the car and cannot find a leak.

Can someone give me some ideas?

I am very frustrated.

[wiswind]

No external leakage, the 2 most likely leaks are the front cover.....aka timing cover.....gasket......
The gasket is cheap.......the labor is NOT.....it is a major job.
I caught my front cover gasket leak at the seepage stage......and was successful with Bar's Stop Leak.......the "Liquid Alluminum" is the easiest to use and easy to find......It has held for many years.......Not so sure about a major leak.

The other likely leak is the lower intake manifold gaskets......the only fix for that is to replace them.

Both of these leaks WILL ruin the motor if not corrected.....coolant gets into the motor oil....and causes the motor oil to not lubricate the motor......

The head gaskets are very low failure on post 1995 windstars......however the lower intake manifold gasket leak usually leaks into the intake.....the coolant is drawn into the cylinder(s)......giving the impression that a head gasket may be at fault.
It takes further testing to determine that it is just the lower intake manifold gaskets.....and not the head gaskets.

The amount that you are leaking is SERIOUS.

Squeeking may be caused by this coolant issue.......or may be the Camshaft position sensor shaft, idler pulley, or other belt driven pulley.
One thing that you can do is remove the drive belt (make sure that you have the routing diagram first.....located on the underside....front passenger side of the hood......or download it from someplace like AutoZone's vehicle repair information on their website).......start the motor.....just run it for a minute MAX......IF the sound is not there....then the sound is a belt driven item.

[tartersauce]

Check your waterpump..

Squeeking from the bearing of the waterpump?? Your gonna have to remove your belt and try to wiggle the pump pulley. Also look for coolant around its seal shaft out the front, and little vent hole on its neck of the pump.
If your sqeeking inside of the engine, Youll probley have lifter noises from low oil pressure. Which I doubt its internal.. You will hear an internal engine noise inside of the car with the windows up. As they are LOUD..

[tripletdaddy]

Isn't there a bypass hose that goes under the upper manifold? Some have had pin hole leaks on these under the manifold and on the y-pipe. Be sure you trace these pipes, joints, fittings, hoses, connections for wetness or white powdery deposits. I have a chronic leak at the heater hose clamp connection at the manifold that will not die!?! Do you detect a sweet smell while it runs or a hot stinky coolant smell during and after getting car hot? Do you feel like you have a lot more white steamy exhaust than before? You pull plugs to look for very clean or green ends. Look at coolant and oil and see if they don't look normal.. milky goo..oily goo. Oil level higher than normal, but will probably not look right. It's risky to remove them, but O2 sensors turn green with coolant leaking into engine. There is also a engine oil contamination test that a mechanic or you can have done. Hope it isn't as bad as this sounds.

[northern piper]

1 of the other things you could do is an oil sample test thru a place like Blackstone Labs. That will tell you a lot about what's going on regarding fluids.

Piper

[HamySeven]

I did take off the serpentine belt to check the pulleys and the noise continued without the belt attached. I then opened the oil cap and looked into the engine with it running. It was very evident to me that the noise was moving in time with the pistons moving up and down. Also, my oil was a light chocolate color. I figured this showed me where my coolant was going.

I changed the oil and coolant, but I still have not found the leak. I assume that it is in the intake gasket as suggested above. I am not very mechanical but want to keep this car going. It is all I have. What can I do to fix this leak without taking apart the engine? IS there something I can add to it to seal the leak? How would I go about finding the leak? And, just in case, how would I find instructions on taking apart the engine to repair it?

Thanks for everyone's else

[wiswind]

I was NOT successful with solving the lower manifold leak with stop leak......and mine was a very slight leak......which is the easiest leak to solve.
That leaves you with needing to have the lower intake manifold gaskets replaced.
My other concern is whether you have already done damage to the bearings inside the motor....that will require repair.....
Damage requiring repair is happening long before you can see the presence of coolant in the motor oil....by looking at it (any signs of "milkyness").
I would seek an evaluation of the damages from a mechanic that you can trust, before investing in the lower intake manifold gasket repair.........as you may have further, expensive, repairs required in addition to the coolant leak.

As far as the lower manifold gasket repair......do a search on this forum (you need to be signed in for the search button to show up), and you will see several posts on this repair....
You WILL need a good repair manual.......I use alldatadiy , an online repair manual.
I think that the pictures that I posted of this repair on my '96, 3.8L start on page 8 of 10 in the pictures that the link in my signature takes you to.

[uzzo2]

Originally Posted by wiswind

No external leakage, the 2 most likely leaks are the front cover.....aka timing cover.....gasket......
The gasket is cheap.......the labor is NOT.....it is a major job.
I caught my front cover gasket leak at the seepage stage......and was successful with Bar's Stop Leak.......the "Liquid Alluminum" is the easiest to use and easy to find......It has held for many years.......Not so sure about a major leak.

The other likely leak is the lower intake manifold gaskets......the only fix for that is to replace them.

Both of these leaks WILL ruin the motor if not corrected.....coolant gets into the motor oil....and causes the motor oil to not lubricate the motor......

The head gaskets are very low failure on post 1995 windstars......however the lower intake manifold gasket leak usually leaks into the intake.....the coolant is drawn into the cylinder(s)......giving the impression that a head gasket may be at fault.
It takes further testing to determine that it is just the lower intake manifold gaskets.....and not the head gaskets.

The amount that you are leaking is SERIOUS.

Squeeking may be caused by this coolant issue.......or may be the Camshaft position sensor shaft, idler pulley, or other belt driven pulley.
One thing that you can do is remove the drive belt (make sure that you have the routing diagram first.....located on the underside....front passenger side of the hood......or download it from someplace like AutoZone's vehicle repair information on their website).......start the motor.....just run it for a minute MAX......IF the sound is not there....then the sound is a belt driven item.

wiswind, i was reading this post and i'm having a very slight seepage from the intake manifold gasket on my 95 winnie with the 3.8. mine is seeping at the back of the cylinder head on cylinder #6 and running down the side of the block. like i said, it's very slight, the only time i ever notice it is after the car been sitting say overnight. i was thinking of trying some k&w block seal, i've used that stuff before with very good results. although, i don't recall ever having used it for a leaking intake gasket. what do you think, do you have an opinion on the k&w?

[tartersauce]

Originally Posted by uzzo2

wiswind, i was reading this post and i'm having a very slight seepage from the intake manifold gasket on my 95 winnie with the 3.8. mine is seeping at the back of the cylinder head on cylinder #6 and running down the side of the block. like i said, it's very slight, the only time i ever notice it is after the car been sitting say overnight. i was thinking of trying some k&w block seal, i've used that stuff before with very good results. although, i don't recall ever having used it for a leaking intake gasket. what do you think, do you have an opinion on the k&w?

I wouldnt use any stop leak.. That stuff can clog heater cores in an instant causing more flow problems. Just my nickel.. The intake gaskets are pretty easy on the engine, and not worth dumping stuff in the coolant..

[wiswind]

I am not familiar with K&W, so I don't know.
I tried the Bar's head gasket stuff.....and still had the slight leak.

For the problem Hamyseven is having.....it is STILL possible for the leak to be the front cover, aka timing cover.
That is NOT a DIY job.
All of my leaks were VERY slight......Blackstone labs detected a VERY slight presence of coolant in the motor oil after 4000 miles on the oil.

With the amount of coolant in the oil on Hamyseven's windstar, I would hate to see him invest in gasket repair and find that more repairs that are $$$ are needed.....basically a rebuild of the motor "could" be needed......
This is why evaluation by someone who knows what they are looking at would be advisable before starting work.

[uzzo2]

Originally Posted by wiswind

I am not familiar with K&W, so I don't know.
I tried the Bar's head gasket stuff.....and still had the slight leak.

For the problem Hamyseven is having.....it is STILL possible for the leak to be the front cover, aka timing cover.
That is NOT a DIY job.
All of my leaks were VERY slight......Blackstone labs detected a VERY slight presence of coolant in the motor oil after 4000 miles on the oil.

With the amount of coolant in the oil on Hamyseven's windstar, I would hate to see him invest in gasket repair and find that more repairs that are $$$ are needed.....basically a rebuild of the motor "could" be needed......
This is why evaluation by someone who knows what they are looking at would be advisable before starting work.

ok, thanks wiswind, i've used the k&w before, years ago and had very good success. it actually works a lot better than the some of the other products such as bars leaks and doesn't clog things up like bars. it's basically sodium silicate or "water glass" that you used to be able to get at almost any pharmacy. old timers have been using that stuff for years, i think you are spot on with your assesment of hamysevens car, if it has a lot of miles on it and getting water in the oil. i believe i'd just invest in a reman engine or another vehicle. i just got mine back from the tranny shop, was hoping it was just going to be the torque converter but alas, no. had to do the complete rebuild, quick way to spend $1500.00 for sure.

[tartersauce]

Originally Posted by uzzo2

ok, thanks wiswind, i've used the k&w before, years ago and had very good success. it actually works a lot better than the some of the other products such as bars leaks and doesn't clog things up like bars. it's basically sodium silicate or "water glass" that you used to be able to get at almost any pharmacy. old timers have been using that stuff for years, i think you are spot on with your assesment of hamysevens car, if it has a lot of miles on it and getting water in the oil. i believe i'd just invest in a reman engine or another vehicle. i just got mine back from the tranny shop, was hoping it was just going to be the torque converter but alas, no. had to do the complete rebuild, quick way to spend $1500.00 for sure.

If the Oil is that nasty, OUCH.. Pulling the Intake would be a good start tho, and seeing a few wearing parts inside.. Might give him some clues on how the engine is holding up..

[wiswind]

I had success with the Bar''s stop leak in sealing up the front cover gasket.
I was quoted $1200 to replace the gasket at my local dealership.....and they advised me to leave it go.....as it was not enough to worry about.
I was not happy with that.....and added the stop leak.
I caught it at the stage where it was a VERY slight seepage.....needed to add some to the coolant overflow bottle every 2 months.
It has held for 8 years.

I don't think there is a issue with the heater core because the coolant flows through the heater core ALL the time, regardless of what you select on the dashboard.
The temperature control determines the position of the blend door......controlling how much air passes over the hot heater core.
So the coolant does not sit stagnent in there all summer.
Now on older cars....and maybe some of the other new cars......where the temperature control controls the coolant flow through the heater core.....that would give things a chance to gum up.
Also.....changing the coolant at the recommended interval (2 years for non-long life, 5 years MAX for long life) is really important.
I read someplace speculation that more cars are in the junk yard because of neglected cooling systems than for neglected oil.

I prefer to keep some stop leak in the coolant all the time......as I think it helps to seal leaks up at the very slight seepage stage......and that is where one has the best chance of solving the problem.

[tartersauce]

Originally Posted by wiswind

I had success with the Bar''s stop leak in sealing up the front cover gasket.
I was quoted $1200 to replace the gasket at my local dealership.....and they advised me to leave it go.....as it was not enough to worry about.
I was not happy with that.....and added the stop leak.
I caught it at the stage where it was a VERY slight seepage.....needed to add some to the coolant overflow bottle every 2 months.
It has held for 8 years.

I don't think there is a issue with the heater core because the coolant flows through the heater core ALL the time, regardless of what you select on the dashboard.
The temperature control determines the position of the blend door......controlling how much air passes over the hot heater core.
So the coolant does not sit stagnent in there all summer.
Now on older cars....and maybe some of the other new cars......where the temperature control controls the coolant flow through the heater core.....that would give things a chance to gum up.
Also.....changing the coolant at the recommended interval (2 years for non-long life, 5 years MAX for long life) is really important.
I read someplace speculation that more cars are in the junk yard because of neglected cooling systems than for neglected oil.

I prefer to keep some stop leak in the coolant all the time......as I think it helps to seal leaks up at the very slight seepage stage......and that is where one has the best chance of solving the problem.

I wont use any stop leak as Ive seen first hand the insides of many cores. The tubing that connects the top to bottom of the core together is 1/8 in wide and is very easy to clog. We are talking about a winnie, and they already have alum parts installed. Which will make things corrode from old or incorrect coolant clogging it even easier.
Bar Leak, etc is for old v8 302 351, or 350s. The Rad on these older cars look like truck rads..
Ive seen this on bottle coolant systems All the bar leaks is just laying in the bottom of the bottle and half clogging the outlet that leads to your radiator. This was a 3/4 hose just like the winnie, and it was half clogged up when I took the hose off. It looked like Cement and wasnt easy to digg out.

[wiswind]

The "bypass hose" that tartersauce mentions as a possible leak source....
Off the vehicle.....
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2410...11220610oqcCUN

The bent part...with the "U" hose....on the left side is on the passenger side of the motor......and the straight part passes through the lower intake manifold.

A link to a picture of what the motor looked like under my lower intake manifold.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2406...11220610bjzjxv

I understand that this is abnormally clean for a motor at about 163K miles.
At the bottom of the picture.....on the right....you can select "+" to blow the picture up bigger.
Then you may be able to blow it up even bigger by clicking on the picture.
The big shaft across the middle......is the counterballance shaft......intended to reduce motor vibration while running.

If you look to the right hand side of the counterballance shaft.....you will be able to see the shiny lobes of the camshaft....at the bottom of the "V" of the inside of the motor.
On the 2nd and 4th camshaft lobes from the right....you can barely make out the roller that rides the lobe.
This roller is located on the end of the "lifter" which is mounted on the end of each of those pushrods (the rods that you can see coming down from behind the lower intake manifold gaskets).
The "lifter" works to pump oil up through the hollow pushrod.......which goes up to the top.....visible when you look down into the oil fill cap in the front valve cover.

When you look down into the oil fill location....you can see the rocker arm....that pushed down at the front to push the valve down (opening it)......and you can see the valve spring on the valve end.
The other end of the rocker arm sits on top of the pushrod.
There is a hole in the rocker arm that lines up with the hollow center of the pushrod.......and you can see a small squirt of oil come out of the hole with each movement of the rocker arm.

The valves are mounted into the TOP of the head.....and that is also where the valve seals will be.

I am not experienced to know what to look for in terms of wear by looking down under the lower intake manifold....but this is a look at a good one.
Again.....I understand that this is cleaner than most.
Tartersauce wil be better able to tell you what to look for.

A location that I was thinking might be worn would be the bearings at the bottom of the motor.......I have not had the oil pan off of my motor...(requires you to remove the "Y" pipe.....which is both catalytic converters).....which is what you need to do to be able to see that part of the motor.