Need Help Quick! 98 Sho Wont Start

03impala9c1 · #1 03-23-2008, 04:25 AM

Just replaced the engine in a 98 sho. car ran before (on 4 cylinders) and the pcm was unplugged for a few days and the battery has been out for about two weeks...

seems all wiring harnesses are ok and in place SEEMS

went to attempt to start the car and... nothing well the engine cranks over fine... but no spark

i was thinking maybe PATS? THE THEFT LIGHT BLINKS LIKE CRAZY WITH THE KEY IN THE ON POSITION does the key need to be reprogrammed? the pcm flashed? idk the engine is out of a 97 taurus so i wouldnt think so...

CAR NEEDS TO RUN BY MIDDAY SUNDAY SO ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED!!!

shorod · #2 03-23-2008, 10:00 AM

Do you have another key you can try? Did you retain the original PCM and all computer modules, or did you transplant the PCM from the donor car? If you transplanted the PCM, then the PCM needs to be programmed for the existing PATS system. Try putting the original PCM back in if that's the case. According to the factory service manual, "The shared PCM ID is remembered even if the battery is disconnected. The PATS module also stores the vehicle's key identification code even if the battery is disconnected." Also according to the service manual, "The PATS also disables the starter motor in addition to the PCM disabling the engine. When the PATS disables the vehicle, it will neither crank nor start. If the PATS module is removed from the vehicle, the engine will not crank." I guess the PATS is probably not the issue.

Verify that you didn't damage the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor or wiring when installing the new engine (congrats on that task, by the way!) as well as the wiring to the camshaft position sensor. The camshaft position (CMP) sensor located on the rear of the left hand cylinder head probably has more to do with spark control than the CKP, but if the CMP signal is not available, the CKP signal will be used with base timing to keep the engine running. Even if the CMP signal is not present at start up though, the PCM will double-fire each coil which will allow the engine to start.

Also, do you have a scan tool, and if so, is it able to communicate with the PCM? Have you checked all the fuses? Do you get the bulb test when the key is first turned to the "Run" position?

-Rod

03impala9c1 · #3 03-23-2008, 01:46 PM

ILL try some of your suggestions and give it another shot!!!!! i only have one key too.... and i can try to skyfe an NGS from work but they keep tabs on those like no tomorrow i might be able to get away with the IDS... you know it would be great if i could GET the car there...

03impala9c1 · #4 03-23-2008, 01:57 PM

ALSO i know PATS used System Type A in the 97's which dont have starter interrupt and the 98 and 99 used type B which do. this is off my SHOPKEY TSB...

NOTE: SOME VEHICLES WITH PATS TYPE B OR C MAY NOT INCLUDE A STARTER INTERUPT (SI). THESE VEHICLES DO NOT NECISSARILY HAVE TO EXHIBIT A NO CRANK SITUATION TO CONSTITUTE A PATS RELATED NO START.

03impala9c1 · #5 03-23-2008, 03:21 PM

ok im back at the car now.... wiring to the ckp and cmp are fine i think it has more to do with the PATS

with the ignition turned in the run position, the theft light blinks like crazy for MORE than thirty seconds. in addition when i crank, the theft light will still continue to blink, but SLOWER... i think i want to try reprogramming the 1 key i have... but i do not have my shopkey available to tell me how to do this... can anyone help with this situation..??

fubard · #6 03-23-2008, 03:35 PM

Great job swapping the new engine. Can you come do mine "

Anyway , I found this after a quick search
=============================================
for Ford keys (1996 -early 1998 Ford, Lincoln, Mercury)
If you want to initiate a new master key....

1. Insert new key into ignition cylinder and turn it to the ON (RUN) position. The security light on the dash will flash for fifteen minutes.

2. When the security light stops flashing, you have FIVE minutes to start the next step. Turn the ignition cylinder OFF and then back to the ON (RUN) position. The security light on the dash will flash for fifteen more minutes.

3. When the security light stops flashing, you have FIVE minutes to start the next step. Turn the ignition cylinder to OFF and then back ON (RUN) position. The dash will flash for fifteen more minutes.

4. After the security light stops flashing the third time, the new key has been programmed into the vehicles computer and will operate the car. It has replaced ALL the previous electronic key codes and is the ONLY key programmed into the vehicles computer.

I accept no responsibilty in the use of this procedure

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03impala9c1

ok im back at the car now.... wiring to the ckp and cmp are fine i think it has more to do with the PATS

with the ignition turned in the run position, the theft light blinks like crazy for MORE than thirty seconds. in addition when i crank, the theft light will still continue to blink, but SLOWER... i think i want to try reprogramming the 1 key i have... but i do not have my shopkey available to tell me how to do this... can anyone help with this situation..??

03impala9c1 · #7 03-23-2008, 04:01 PM

ok after trying your theory...

it didnt work as you said it might being that that programming i believe is for PATS I but i thought it was worth a try...

this is EXACTLY what happens.
theft light will flash rapidly for 45 seconds to one minute. then the theft light turns off for a few seconds, then i get one solid flash from the theft light, then a pause the SIX medium flashes from it then it cycles through the one slow and 6 medium for a few cycles then the theft light stops altogether... and again NO firing of the engine.

i know that as i crank with the theft light flashing before i start the crank the light will flash. and if i wait until the light stops altogether the light wont flash but still no start, AND the only other light i see in the gauge assy is the O/D off light is on... does this help anyone out there as lost as i am?!

03impala9c1 · #8 03-23-2008, 06:45 PM

i just decoded the 1:6 blink and it tells me that there is a "Faulty Link between PATS module and EECV" meaning...?

shorod · #9 03-24-2008, 12:28 AM

Your local auto parts store will likely have a scan tool that you can borrow for a refundable down payment. You need to see if you have any communication to the PCM.

According to the 1998 Ford factory service manual, your 1998 Taurus SHO PATS system will not allow the engine to crank if the PATS does not recognize the key. To program new keys, you NEED two programmed keys, otherwise you need to dealer tools to program an additional key.

I don't find a listing for PATS system lamp fault codes. The NGS if you can get it to your car should be able to tell you the codes the systems recognizes though.

-Rod

03impala9c1 · #10 03-25-2008, 10:45 AM

Changed the engine harness from the 97 harness to the cars original 98 harness for kicks and grins and.... the theft light now shows its NORMAL proveout! idk y in the heck but it worked! BUT now i have tons of fuel pressure, but still no sparkto the plugs, and you would think from me cranking for 4 15-30 second cranks, that the plugs would be flooded, but they arent. swapped the cam sensor to the one that i KNOW is good and was in the process of swapping the crank sensor too but the D*%$ bolt head snapped off so im kinda in a kunundrum about that but idk any ideas here? what else could it be besides the crank sensor. the ONLY things i dont have plugged in are the POST O2 sensors which shouldnt matter since all they do is tell you how effeciently the cats are working...

shorod · #11 03-25-2008, 11:05 PM

So it sounds like you don't have spark or fuel? How did you verify that you don't have spark, since you have the CoP ignition? Have you checked for the primary trigger a few of the coils?

-Rod

03impala9c1 · #12 03-27-2008, 12:37 PM

Found the second and final problem to get the car started to let you guys know! It was the feed wire TO the crank sensor. They put it in such a stupid spot that if the wires bounce around too much, the belt will eventually break the wire(s)... (probably finally completely broke during the harness installation) SO alls good here got a running SHO! kind of depressed about its performance though.. . not as fast as i had expected!

shorod · #13 03-27-2008, 01:50 PM

Congrats on finding the (hopefully) final problem and having a running car! Also, thank you for following up on what you found. Too bad more people don't follow up once they get their problems solved.

Based on wording in the factory service manual that the car will rely on CKP signal in the event of a CMP failure to allow the car to start, having a broken wire to the CKP may indicate you also have a CMP issue. I would expect you'd soon get a code for a CMP failure, but I don't know that for sure. Maybe that would contribute to less than ideal performance, or maybe the SHO just isn't what you were hoping for, especially after all that work!

-Rod

03impala9c1 · #14 03-27-2008, 11:35 PM

well we will soon find out! drove it for a solid 2 hours today to work on any kinks it might have and yet no SES light even though the post o2 sensors arent connected! Ford is horrible when it comes to ANYTHING OBDII. keep intouch!

shorod · #15 03-28-2008, 12:12 AM

Hmmm, that IS odd!

I'm not a GM guy, but I will admit, GM and Chrysler both have better OBD-II capabilities available to my OTC Genisys scan tool. There's virtually no bi-directional Ford capability, but quite extensive bi-directional capability with GM and Chrysler.

-Rod

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD