Mileage benefits of K&N FIPK?

[guitarfish]

I have an '08 GP (3800, no SC) with 15K miles, and was wondering if the FIPK would improve my mileage. I drive mostly rural & highway and get 22-24Mpg per tank most times.

What other benefits does the FIPK give?

[accuab]

You will also get a little bit of horsepower and torque due to the less restrictive intake. More air = better combustion. The added torque will give you better shifting out of your transmission. I would check the warranty before you make any decisions tho or at least get an ok from the dealer. I'm not sure on gm's take on installing aftermarket parts. It does only good for the engine but they are weird about things.

[richtazz]

I disagree. Re-useable filter elements do not stop smaller particles from entering your engine, they reach dirt saturation much faster than a quality paper filter requiring more frequent maintenance, and if you accidentally over oil one, it will wreak havoc on sensitive electronics such as MAF sensors, IAC valves and oxygen sensors. Most if not all claimed gains of these filters are theoretical, especially on non-modded engines. The factory air filter and housing are capable of flowing over 900 cfm of air, and a non-supercharged 3800 would have to be turning close to 10k rpm to draw that much.

[tblake]

I agree Rich, just didnt want to be the first one to say it. (your more credible than I am) however when I was at school, we did dyno a buddy's car with a K&N panel filter and a regular air filter. Dyno showed no difference (waste of money)

[richtazz]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Tim. You're new to Grand Prix's, but you've been on the forum's long enough that your opinion carries weight too. You've been a good contributor since your days on the Lumina Forum, and now here.

[Lucio@KNFilters]

Originally Posted by richtazz

I disagree. Re-useable filter elements do not stop smaller particles from entering your engine, they reach dirt saturation much faster than a quality paper filter requiring more frequent maintenance, and if you accidentally over oil one, it will wreak havoc on sensitive electronics such as MAF sensors, IAC valves and oxygen sensors. Most if not all claimed gains of these filters are theoretical, especially on non-modded engines. The factory air filter and housing are capable of flowing over 900 cfm of air, and a non-supercharged 3800 would have to be turning close to 10k rpm to draw that much.

MAF Sensors

K&N has never been provided any evidence of a MAF sensor being fouled by filter oil regardless of how much oil was used on the filter. We have tested over 100 MAF sensors allegedly harmed by filter oil and have yet to find any trace of filter oil on the sensors. What we did find was that 60% of the sensors in question were performing perfectly with no defect and had in fact been misdiagnosed. 18% of the sensors had complete electronic failures in no way due to contamination while 22% were out of tolerance. Again not a single one had a trace of filter oil on it. For more information on this issue and K&N’s consumer protection pledge go to http://knfilters.com/MAF/MAFTestresults.htm. K&N is proud to have complete quality control by doing our testing, development and manufacturing in the USA. Not only have we sold in excess of 20 million air filters worldwide but we continue to be used by many top racing teams including the winners of the 2007 Baja 1000 and Baja 500 (and the 2008 Daytona 500).

[guitarfish]

Well this is getting interesting. opcorn:

I purchased a K&N filter for my new 1998 GP GT 10 years ago. I was impressed with the quality of the filter, and how it held up. (It was still in the car when I traded it with 225K).

I cleaned/reoiled it every 25K. By all accounts, it did a great job filtering dirt, and at least anecdotally (as opposed to anything I could measure), I felt the car had a little more pep.

I consider K&N to be a good company that makes good stuff, so I'm having a hard time believing they are still selling these filters as well as FIPK's if there's no measurable benefit over a stock paper filter. If this were so, it doesn't explain all the positive customer feedback, not to mention sales and repeat sales, for well over 10 years.

K&N's own data does show a modest HP improvement. My original question however, wasn't about HP, but about MPG. I don't need more power from my car, but if I could squeese a couple more miles per gallon, it would be a worthwhile investment.

[J-Ri]

For the first year of my career, I did very little other than oil changes. We inspect the air filter at every oil change (that's around 8 per day 5 days a week for a year). What Rich and TBlake said about dirt is absolutely true. On K&N equiped vehicles, there is a very fine dust on the clean (or should be clean, rather) side of the air filter. I don't doubt that they are capable of flowing more air (also flow more dirt) than a stock filter, but that extra airflow is not needed unless the engien is heavily modified. If it is heavily modified, you definately don't want to be sucking all that dirt in! (not that you do if it isn't modified)

You won't get better MPG with a K&N filter. If you switch from a filter that weighs 5 pounds from all the dirt in it, you will get better mileage, but compared to a vehicle with adequate air flow, there will be no difference.

Going back to filtering capability... I have never used anything but paper filters in any of my vehicles. I use my truck for offroading a lot and there is no trace of dirt/dust past the air filter. It's not uncommon to be in dusty air all day with the engine running between 2-4k RPM for most of it. I also live out in the country... even with all the gravel roads and VISIBLE dust in the air, the air intake is completely clean. The truck has 169,5xx miles on it and since 121,xxx miles the filter housing has not been touched... so that's at least 48,500 miles for dust to accumulate and it hasn't.

[Lucio@KNFilters]

There is much misleading information on the web in respect to air filtration, the people making such claims are not accountable for them and the web enables them to distribute this misinformation at random. K&N does not have the luxury of not being held accountable. K&N has a legal and moral responsibility to the consumer and we take it seriously. See http://knfilters.com/MAF/massairpledge.htm for our Consumer Protection Pledge. K&N operates an ISO compliant test facility on a daily year round basis where we test our air filters in accordance with the ISO 5011 Test Protocol to ensure they will protect your engine as well as help your car run better.
Here are a couple of links that explain the ISO 5011 test procedure we submit our filters to:
http://knfilters.com/efficiency_testing.htm
http://knfilters.com/efficiency_testing_procedure.htm

It’s important to realize that a corporation can be held liable for their claims and the performance of their products versus people’s opinions, or independent tests, which have no liability attached. With that being said the fact that over the last 39 years we have sold over 20 million filters and continue to lead the performance filtration industry is a testament to the quality of our product. For some good real life evidence go to http://knfilters.com/million and read about the Chevy Silverado that went one million miles with a K&N air filter and never had the engine rebuilt or the heads off.

[Nalayah]

What a surprise that the K&N rep comes through with links to a K&N website supporting K&N filters, just like snake oil reps usually do.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm Sums most of it up. Most "improvements" are the psychological placebo effect.

[richtazz]

Just to clarify, I never actually knocked K&N's product. I only pointed out that it's claimed gains are theoretical, and do not hold up in the real world. Buying a K&N filter as a modification is a waste of money in my opinion. I have never seen a performance gain in real world, including days at the drag strip where direct comparisons were possible.

On the MAF issue, I have personally cleaned and replaced 4 MAF sensors that failed after a reuseable air filter was installed (3 were K&N's, one was a Fram Air-hog, and to be perfectly clear all 4 were over oiled) that worked perfectly after the reuseable filter was removed and replaced with a quality paper element filter. I'm not saying that one of these filters properly installed will cause this issue, but over oiled ones can and will.

I appreciate your confidence and willingness to defend your product Lucio, but I'm not going to continue to beat a dead horse as to tests, claims, etc... I stand by what I said in that these reuseable filters are not worth the cost and added maintenance as a performance modification except maybe on highly modded engines where every little bit helps.

I also appreciate that you didn't turn this thread into a running ad for your product, as forum rules do not allow it. I will allow your posts to stay as defending you product should be allowed.

[BNaylor]

OK guys. The OP is looking for info related to the K&N FIPK which is a Fuel Injection Performance Kit similar to a warm air or CAI system. So lets keep it on target. This should not be a debate on the pros and cons of K&N products in which we have far too many old threads covering that subject and the subject is getting old.