Another University Shooting

[jon@af]

This time, pretty close to home for me.


Shooting at Northern Illinois University

Originally Posted by Chicago Tribune Report

17 injured in NIU shooting
Gunman dead

By Jason Meisner, Jeremy Gorner and Tina Shah | Tribune reporters
5:26 PM CST, February 14, 2008

A man opened fire with a shotgun and a handgun Thursday afternoon in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, wounding at least 17 people before apparently killing himself, authorities said.

Agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were assisting local authorities at the scene, spokesman Thomas Ahern said.

Ahern said the gunman was dead, but he did not know if the shooter was a student or what his motive might have been.

"We will be urgently tracing the firearms and learning the history of the weapons," Ahern said. He said agents will run the weapons through a national tracing center to "learn where they came from and how the shooter came to possess them."

According to a statement posted on the university's Web site, "the immediate danger has passed" as of 4:15 p.m. "The gunman is no longer a threat," the statement read. "The DeKalb campus is closed tomorrow. Students can go to any residence hall for counseling."

Jillian Martinez, a freshman from Carpentersville, said she was in the auditorium in Cole Hall when the gunman entered through a door to the right of the lectern and opened fire about 3 p.m.

"He just started shooting at all the kids," she said. "He just started shooting at people, and I ran out of there as fast as I could. I ran all the way to the student center; when I got there I could still hear shooting [from the classroom].

"Martinez said the assailant was a white man and he was carrying a large gun.

Dominique Broxton, 22, a student from Oak Park, said she could see two wounded students from her dorm room.

"The ambulance took away two students on the ground right outside my dorm," she said. "I don't know them. They looked bloody. Where I am right now, there are a lot of police, at least a dozen. There are police cars and trucks everywhere."

Broxton said the scene was chaotic.

"I saw a lot of confusion," she said. "Students were running. People really didn't know what was going on. There is an intercom system inside the dorm. Someone came on and stated that someone had been caught. They said they caught the shooter and that we should remain calm and stay in our rooms. I am in my room now."

Theresa Komitis, spokeswoman at Kishwaukee Community Hospital in DeKalb, said the hospital has received a total of 17 patients, all with gunshot wounds. She said three were in critical condition.

The coroner's offices in McHenry County and DeKalb County said no fatalities had been immediately reported.

Officers responded to a call of shots fired on campus around 3 p.m., according to DeKalb County Sheriff Roger Scott.

A professor at the school said there was a person with a gun in Cole Hall, a large lecture hall next to Watson Hall.

Sophomore Geoff Alberti of Geneva told his parents he was in geology class when the gunman, carrying both a pistol and a shotgun, entered the auditorium-style classroom through an emergency exit. The shooter did not say anything before opening fire on the class, he told his parents.

"He said at least 20 rounds were fired," said his mother, Marilyn.

Most students dropped to the floor after hearing the first shot and then crawled out of the classroom on their bellies, his mother said. Alberti called his parents at 3:20 p.m. immediately after exiting the building.

"He was just frantic," Marilyn Alberti said. "He said, 'Mom, a guy just shot up my class.' "

Geoff Alberti is currently being interviewed by police on campus, she said.

Linda Stoklasa, 20, a sophomore from Gurnee, said she saw people running and screaming.

Stoklasa said she saw a couple of students being treated right outside her dorm.

"One kid was bleeding, one girl couldn't walk," she said. "It was a little after 3 p.m. I didn't hear the shots, but I heard people screaming outside."

Stoklasa said she opened up her window in time to hear another student from inside her dorm yell out to the passersby, asking them what was going on. One of the fleeing students responded back, saying, "Someone has a gun!"

"I was scared," she said. "I was really scared. Right now, I think people are calming down, but it was really frantic."

She said her dorm monitor wouldn't allow students to walk in the hallways, telling them to stay inside and lock their doors.

"I called my mom," Stoklasa said. "I couldn't even breathe at first. I told her I was fine."

Tribune reporter Jo Napolitano contributed to this report.

Another university shooting involving some fuck-up that was mad about something that I know wasn't worth killing people over. I know several people at NIU and so does my fiance, though we haven't heard anything about who is and is not injured.

I really, really, really hate people.

Every time something like this happens, I question why I believe in God.

[xeroinfinity]

CNN reported about an hour ago 5 students did die along with the gunman.

I just wanna know how the hell a person can walk into a building with a shot gun no less and not be seen.

Like I said before it's not gun control, its crazy-people control !

Kids hav no morals these days...... and respect either.

[Oz]

It doesn't have much to do with concience or morals if they have mental illness.

It would be great if the mentally ill could be kept away from firearms.

[blazee]

Originally Posted by xeroinfinity

I just wanna know how the hell a person can walk into a building with a shot gun no less and not be seen.

[jon@af]

Originally Posted by Oz

It doesn't have much to do with concience or morals if they have mental illness.

It would be great if the mentally ill could be kept away from firearms.

That's why the background checks on these individuals that are buying the guns need to be done properly and thoroughly. History of mental illness/need to take medication should automatically bar someone from being able to purchase a weapon.

[00accord44]

My good friend at work has a daughter who is a student at NIU. Luckily her daughter was not in that class, but she was on campus when it happened and called her mom scared that the guy was still walking around campus. Thankfully she was not hurt.

Originally Posted by Me on a Chicago sports forum

Tank [Johnson formerly of the Bears] is just playing "war" like the rest of the world. Guns (and other weapons) are an accepted part of our existence. They have been for centuries. Food for thought: humans are the ONLY animals that willfully/intentionaly kill one another. We're by far the smartest beings on this planet, but we can't figure out how to not exterminate ourselves. Not only do we have the problem of civillians being killed by random nutbags with 9s and shottys, but we align ourselves along geographic lines and bring together thousands of civillians to form killing squads in the name of patriotism. Patriotism is nothing more than the thought that your country is better than the rest by virtue of the fact you are there. The more I think about it, the stupider it seems.

Now PLEASE do not take the above statement as ay kind of knock against those who choose to serve in our armed forces. I thank each and every one of you who thought so much of the rest of us that you decided to put yourself in harms way if it meant protecting your homeland. Although the actions they preform are harmful (to someone somewhere) at the root, they are indeed necessary. As I said, humans are the only animals that kill each other, and because of that it has become completely necessary to have armed forces put in place to protect the rest of us. Unfortunately, taking another life is often the only way to save your own or others'. I have no delusions that that mentality will change any time soon or ever, but the thought that killing is a necessity has crept far down into our society so much so that kids as young as 6 believe they "must" kill before the opposition strikes them first. In certain war-torn regions of Africa, children are brought up from birth to be trained as killing machines to "protect" their village/city/community/country from infidels and "devils". **give a listen to Lupe Fiasco - Little Weapon. Great song** Its fucked up and sad, but its where we are as humans right now.

Closer to the topic at hand, I saw on the news last nght that Hillary and Barack gave speeches about gun control and the sad state of affairs etc, but I wish gun control was such a "national issue" when little kids are caught in gang crossfire in Englewood, Gage Park, East Side, Evanston, Miami, LA, NY, wherever. Its extremely unfortunate and alarming that kids are being killed in classrooms, but it is equally unfortunate that this type of tragedy goes unnoticed when its in bad neighborhoods across America. Its not just gang members, drug dealers, crooks, and the mob getting killed on a regular basis. I recall at least 3 different stories of kids caugh in crossfires just in recent months but those stories are only local and pass within days.

Canada loks damn good right about now

[mellowboy]

Yeah this definitely was a shock to me. I have friends that still goes there. My youngest bro was about to attend there this semester.

[J-Ri]

Originally Posted by Oz

It would be great if the mentally ill could be kept away from firearms.

What is mentally ill? Most people seem normal until they snap. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/15/us...rsity_shooting If someone wants to kill someone, with or without a reason, they will find a way. He could have chained the doors shut, mixed up a batch of mustard gas (bleach and ammonia) and thrown it inside the auditorium. Should the mentally ill be kept from using cleaning chemicals? People can kill with a hammer, a rock, or their bare hands.

It seems to me that the solution is more guns. Criminals have them, and won't give them up due to more senseless laws. If several law-abiding students or teachers were carrying guns, Kazmierczak could have been stopped very quickly. The article I posted above says that students were yelling "he has a gun!" and "call 911" as soon as Kazmierczak entered the room. If only a few in the audience had guns, how many innocent people do you think would have been killed? One? Two? Less than 5?

[00accord44]

I understand your point J-Ri, I really do. But I cannot stand behind the logic that the solution to gun violence is more guns, especially if it means more guns in the hands of young people. It takes training to shoot with accuracy, so would we have to start adding shooting range to the high school cirriculum to prepare kids for college? And what about when the random nutball has a BPV? Do we then have to train our kids to go for head shots? I'm not a fan of a militarized society of youth. Not to mention the fact that it would inevitably lead to easier access to guns for young gang mambers. There are enough 14 yr olds with pistols on the street now, we don't need to add more. The reason so many innocent bystanders are killed in gang crossfires is because these little shits banging out on the corner don't have a clue how to shoot with accuracy and instead of hitting the other little shit that can't shoot they hit a little girl going to the corner store for watermelon slices (happened this summer in Chicago)

I understand you were just making a point, and I'm not trying to rag on you for it, but I hope you see where I find the flaw in your proposal.

[J-Ri]

Originally Posted by 00accord44

I understand your point J-Ri, I really do. But I cannot stand behind the logic that the solution to gun violence is more guns, especially if it means more guns in the hands of young people. It takes training to shoot with accuracy, so would we have to start adding shooting range to the high school cirriculum to prepare kids for college? And what about when the random nutball has a BPV? Do we then have to train our kids to go for head shots? I'm not a fan of a militarized society of youth. Not to mention the fact that it would inevitably lead to easier access to guns for young gang mambers. There are enough 14 yr olds with pistols on the street now, we don't need to add more. The reason so many innocent bystanders are killed in gang crossfires is because these little shits banging out on the corner don't have a clue how to shoot with accuracy and instead of hitting the other little shit that can't shoot they hit a little girl going to the corner store for watermelon slices (happened this summer in Chicago)

I understand you were just making a point, and I'm not trying to rag on you for it, but I hope you see where I find the flaw in your proposal.

I just typed up a paragraph twice as long as yours, then AF kicked me out as soon as I hit submit , so here are the main points, as I'm in a bit of a hurry now.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to have a marksmanship course offered in highschool, which is not to say that it is necessarily a good idea. Yes, take the headshot if it's him or me. I watch just about every episode of COPS, and almost every time they find a gun it's stolen. Easier access for law-abiding citizens doesn't make it easier to buy a stolen gun. You have to be 18 to own a rifle or shotgun and 21 to own a handgun. Easier access would not be given to 14 year olds.

[kublah]

Originally Posted by 00accord44

Food for thought: humans are the ONLY animals that willfully/intentionaly kill one another.

Many animals besides humans will intentionally kill others of the same species. Chimpanzees have their own versions of gang wars where others are killed, and a dominant male hippo might kill a younger male that he feels may some day be threat to his control of a territory.

I think there is actually a parallel that could be drawn between the motivations for these types of animal murders and our own. The only real difference is that a human murder is seen as an evil act comitted by an exceptional few, whereas even though animals might greive at the loss of life, murder and conflict is an unquestioned part of the world they live in.

[00accord44]

Yeah, a guy on the other forum made that same point to me. I'm no Steve Irwin. But what I mean to point out is that human continually innovate to perfect the art of murder. Each new year brings a new set of weapons that can more efficiently end human life, and we do not hesitate to put them to use. The only thing we hold off on is nukes and thats only because whoever launches the first knows there will probably be one headed back at them shortly. I believe it only takes 4 or 6 nukes to effectively end all human life on this planet so its been in everyone's best interest to not start those dominoes falling. Aside from that, we increase our lethality faster than we develop defenses. Thats the whole point of the military: defense by offense.