95 Astro Van Rough Idlie & Strong Fuel Odor

[tony4jesus33]

Hi, I have a 1995 Chevy Astro Van with a 4.3L Vortec Engine with the Vin letter "W". It has been acting up for a while. There is a strong gas odor. I checked it for any leaks but no leaks. I checked to see if any of the lines or hoses are loose and no leaks there. When driving it, it runs very rough and wastes alot of gas. When $20.00 would last a week, it last a few days now. My wife uses the van just to work and back. It does not give me any codes and the engine light does not light up. About 4 months ago, same I changed the spark plugs, cap & rotor. I took out the EGR Valve and cleaned it up and it began to run good again although it was not 100%, but this didn't stop the strong fuel odor. About 3 days ago, it began to run very rough and rugged. I put it in Drive and began to idle it and it was very rough and kind of felt like it was out of timing, I'm no proffessional in this opinion so correct me if I'm wrong. There is a kind of black smoke blowing out of the tail pipe. Wondering if it is very dirty in the exhaust system? I am wondering if this is due to the EGR Valve or ICV-Idle Control Vavle being bad? Someone said to me that it is very possible that my Oxygen Sensors are bad, that is why the Strong Fuel Odor, Could This be right?

I really need some advice here, I will greatly appreciate it. This is our Family Van and we really need to get it fixed. Thank you for all your advice in advance. I will be on stand-by to receive your comments and advice or questions. Thank you again, Tony...

[brcidd]

Tony- read the post in this link- it sounds a lot like yours- You need to do a fuel pressure decay test- see if the 60 psi drops after the fuel pump shuts off- if so you have a leak- most likely in the plastic fuel supply lines under the intake plenum...also smell the oil on the dipstick- does it smell like gas?

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=633346

[CD Smalley]

+1 to brcidd's comments. Check the fuel pressure. Either your spider is bad or the lines leading to it, inside the intake plenum, are bad.

[tony4jesus33]

, Thanks so much for recommending that forum. It clearly describes my problem and someone also added a link to a forum with pictures of what it looks like in the intake and how to do the repair.
I just got back from a auto repair shop which belongs to a friend of the family. He told me that he agrees with you on this. He tells me that the strong fuel odor is due to a leaking fuel pressure regulator or just like you indicated, the plastic fuel supply lines under the intake plenum must be corroded and if I was to open up my intake, it will be filled with gas. He also said that the oil is very fine and smells like gas and the black smoke is due to the lines leaking in the intake and cause it to burn in the intake.

What I'm wondering, since I've Owned 3 Astro Vans, I have experience dealing with the discomfort of working on the van, since it is very tight to work on them, how do I go about working on the type of job. It doesn't look hard, but since it will be my first time doing such a job, how long can it take me?, and will I need any special kind of tools?

The mechanic gave me a price of $150.00 to do the job for me and I will have to buy the parts. Can I get some advice on this?
I will call to find out how much the Nut Kit and the regulator will cost me and whatever parts I may need.

[brcidd]

The first thing to do is pull off your doghouse- then you now have access to the engine from three sides- then do the fuel pressure checks- then based on that (if it decays rapidly) then proceed to remove the upper plenum- which is no big deal- just a lot of 10mm nuts and bolts- and make sure you unhook all the wiring connectors out front- and the vacuum lines- and that you wiggle it up and out from behind the a/c hose. Once the plenum is off-look for puddles of fuel- and from where it may be leaking- do the fuel pressure test again- and then notice any drips or leaks-- then based on that replace the leaky component- I have never seen the spider assembly leak ($350) but it is usually the plastic pipes ($44) that attach to the spider that leak-- you will need a new upper intake plenum gasket ($12) and that is about it- it is not that bad of a job- at least you are standing upright while working on it-- just that you must constantly travel from door to door to hood to door- to get all (11?) plenum bolts- you should be able to do the whole job the first time in one day.....as long as parts stores are open....

[tony4jesus33]

Thanks again for your advice. I have been looking at the job and based on my experience working on my own Astro Vans, I have pulled out engines from them, transmissions, and even took one apart and left in on just bare metal. I'm sure I can do this one. I called Advance Autoparts and they have the plastic pipes for $57.98, the Chevy dealer has them for almost $100.00. I'm sure it's those plastic pipes as the fuel odor is coming from the engine and the oil smells like gas. I will go to Harbor Freight Tools to buy the Fuel Pressure Tester. Can you explain to me how to connect pressure gauge tester? I never did one before. Oh, can you tell me where I can buy the plastic lines for $44.00?

[blkmonday]

theres a fuel pressure test port on the back of your intake manifold..hook up the guage there. what your checking for is that the pressure stays up after the fuel pump has been turned off. so hook up the gueage and turn the key to the on position and listen for the pump to turn on...then turn it off and watch the guage. if your spider injector is leaking...the pressure will drop over a short period of time. by hearing your symptoms i would definately say its your problem. they are expensive but easy to replace in an afternoon. it sounds by what you say you've experienced with astros that this should be an easy weekend project for you. ive seen a lot of astros get dumped or sold "as is" because people wouldnt take the time to to replace or diagnose the spider injector properly (ive gotten great deals on vans and sold them after a spider injector and mad a lot of money in the past ) my biggest sugestion is make sure you put the new injector on exactly like the old one comes off..make sure the lines all go to the correct cylinders and also make sure you push the poppets in fully in there seats...nothing worse than having to pull it all apart after finding out you didnt push in a poppet all the way...not to say it takes much force (they are plastic) just something to watch for. also use good gaskets (fel-pro works nice for me) if you run into any problems feel free to contact me through this forum...good luck

[tony4jesus33]

Thank you so much for your much appreciated reply. I am about to go and by the parts and the pressure gauge tester and gasket. I will kepp you posted on my findings. Back in 1997, I bought a 1988 Astro Van which had the eengine rebuilt at 125,000 miles. I bought with 130,000 miles on it and the van lasted me till 2006. I took the engine out to put it into another van I bought. When I first bought it, I always took it to a shop, but after spending more than 5,000 in repairs, I began to do my own work. My wife has a few family members which are mechanics which I began to hang around them and I picked up a few things from them. I saw that patience and the proper tools played a huge role in fixing a car. So I began to buy tools and books and then I got greasy. So yes, I do have the experience and patience to do the repairs I can do. Well, I will keep you posted.

Originally Posted by blkmonday

theres a fuel pressure test port on the back of your intake manifold..hook up the guage there. what your checking for is that the pressure stays up after the fuel pump has been turned off. so hook up the gueage and turn the key to the on position and listen for the pump to turn on...then turn it off and watch the guage. if your spider injector is leaking...the pressure will drop over a short period of time. by hearing your symptoms i would definately say its your problem. they are expensive but easy to replace in an afternoon. it sounds by what you say you've experienced with astros that this should be an easy weekend project for you. ive seen a lot of astros get dumped or sold "as is" because people wouldnt take the time to to replace or diagnose the spider injector properly (ive gotten great deals on vans and sold them after a spider injector and mad a lot of money in the past ) my biggest sugestion is make sure you put the new injector on exactly like the old one comes off..make sure the lines all go to the correct cylinders and also make sure you push the poppets in fully in there seats...nothing worse than having to pull it all apart after finding out you didnt push in a poppet all the way...not to say it takes much force (they are plastic) just something to watch for. also use good gaskets (fel-pro works nice for me) if you run into any problems feel free to contact me through this forum...good luck

[tony4jesus33]

Ok, here's an update. I did the fuel pressure test and as I was hooking it up, I decided to turn the ignition on and I realized that gas was coming out of the vavle. This was not supposed to leak gas so I went to my cousin who is a certified GM specialist and gave me a valve stem. I changed the stem and it stopped leaking through the vavle. I them gave it a test run before the fuel pressure test but still ran rough but there was no longer a gas odor. But I did the test and the fuel pressure was 45 psi and when I accelerated it it went up to 50 psi. I believe it should be more that is unless I didn't do the test correctly. Well, I was told by my cousin that bosch spark plugs are not the ones I should be using in my astro van. I should be using AC-Delco. He gave me 6 AC-Delco Platinum spark plugs and told me to let him know if it runs any different. He also told me to check the wires for corossion. I hope that is the problem and not the fuel lines or spider in the intake. I'm also gonna replace the fuel filter just in case. I didn't mention that the van has 162,500 miles on it. I believe it needs alot of servicing before I decide to open that intake, although I found the fuel lines at Napa for $45.00 and I'm looking at a used spider that I might bye (it looks like new). Well, I'm about to go and change the spark plugs and will let you know how it goes.

[old_master]

Fuel pressure is too low. Key on, engine off, fuel pump running, pressure must be 60 to 66psi. After the pump shuts off, pressure must remain above 55psi for 3 to 5 minutes. GM does not publish any fuel pressure specs for the 4.3L while the engine is running. All tests are done with a cold engine, off.

[tony4jesus33]

Here's an update. I changed the Spark Plugs and discovered that the plugs I used last were the Autolites which are not the ones to use for this kind of Engine. It's ok to use them but it's not recommended. I took them out and they were all black. Only the number 4 plug was wet with gasoline indicting that something could be leaking inside the intake. It could be the fuel pressure regulator or the fuel lines. Well, I put the Ac-delco platinum plugs although they are not the proper part number to the van, but the van runs like anew. I will clean out the EGR tomorrow to see how it looks in there. I took it for a test run after putting the plugs and I was so happy that the van is running great. When I ran it and while in park, I idled it and it is not blowing any black smoke anymore. When idling it in park, I turned it off and when I went out to the back, It still smelled like gas but not as strong as it was before I fixed the gas leak and changed the spark plugs which tells me that something is still not right. I will be buying the fuel filter and I will be changing the oil and filter as well. I will update you tommorow.

If you have any other comments, please post as I will be on tonight.

[old_master]

When checking for fuel pressure leakdown, the pressure must remain above 55psi for 3 to 5 minutes after the pump shuts off. If it does drop below 55psi, and #4 plug is wet, the fuel pressure regulator is leaking.

[gofish]

I've replaced two vans fuel injectors and as described by old master my plenum was clean on the passenger side due to the injector leaking so bad on that side washing away the carbon build up and yes gas can be smelled on the #4 cyclinder plug. Better get it fixed before it starts spilling into the plenum faster as that leaker will get worse with time so no need to buy new spark plugs. It went from a small leak to a gusher on my other van about 3 years ago and I looked like the bug man going 10miles per hour down the road for 2 miles (made it home yea) smoking like crazy out the tail pipe. I couldn't believe after replacing the injector, the engine was still fine after all that.

[tony4jesus33]

Hey Guys, here's that update, Thanks for posting gofish. I guess I will be opening the intake to check the fuel regulator or fuel lines. The van ran great for a day but today, it began to drag again and smells like pure gas when I get out of the van. I guess it's time to really get dirty. I will keep you posted on this. I'll try to take pictures and if it is possible, maybe someone can show me how to post them. Ok, later guys, I'm going outside to get dirty, it's 7:51 here in Central Florida, I will take everything apart and hopefully get her together by tomorrow depending on what part I need. I will let you know what it looks like when I take it apart.

[tony4jesus33]

Hi, I already took the intake off and am looking into the intake and there is a gas leak in there. It is very dirty, and it has a few small puddles of gas. I am wondering how to find what is leaking in there, can anyone tell me how to check it? I'm wondering, since I took of the intake, just putting the switch to the "ON" postion and allow the fuel pump to run, will that be enough to show what part is leaking. I'm pretty sure the fuel lines and the regulator must be bad. The fuel pressure was about 45psi and the number 4 plugs was wet and smelled like gas. I'm charging my batteries so I can take some pictures and hopefully I can show them to you. I am hoping it's the regulator or fuel lines or both and not the injector or the spider, God knows I can't affor to spend $400.00. Well, any questions or advice, please post them as I will be around the whole day till i can determine where is the leak.