Bad Head Gasket or Bad Luck?

[NothingSound]

I noticed that my 1997 Camry CE was running hot when I was on the highway, especially when I was climbing a hill. Not in the red, but about half way to it from normal. It would cool back down after the hill, but still ran a bit warm on the highway. On other 'minor' roads, around town and what not, the temperature stayed within the normal range. Most of my driving is done on the highway BTW. Around 100 miles a day round trip.

I noticed that if I took the vehicle out of overdrive while climbing the hill it would bring the temperature down. Almost to the normal position, but not quite. I told my mechanic about it and he said that it sounded like a blown head gasket, but other than the vehicle running warm there were no other symptoms of this. I searched around and found that it could be anything from a bad thermostat, a radiator cap, head gasket ......blah, blah, blah.

About a week and a half ago I was climbing a hill on my way to work, running above normal temperature as always and I noticed that dreaded antifreeze smell. To make a long story short, it was the heater core. I had to have the car towed to my mechanic where he replaced the core. I asked if he thought we should replace the thermostat at that time and he said no, your thermostat is fine. How he could know this without doing a hot water test was beyond me, but he insisted that wasn't my problem. I was hoping that my whole problem was the heater core to begin with, maybe clogged, my heat never was the best anyway, but when I was driving home that day it did the same exact thing, ran hot going up hills and above normal at highway speed.

I did a bit more research and everything I found pointed to a bad thermostat. Being the easiest and cheapest thing to fix I brought it back to my mechanic and insisted that he change it, which he did.

Well, that was it. The car ran spot on normal temp. Up hills, down hills, high speed, low speed.......perfect!
So you would think.

Yesterday on my way home from work I stopped at a light and all of a sudden a plume of steam started coming out from under my hood. I pulled into a gas station, opened the hood and after a bit of looking around, trying to figure out where it was coming from. Mind you, the car was running fine for 3 full days with no incidents. I ended up finding a crack across the top of the radiator about 6-8 inches long. There was antifreeze all over. WTF? When I first noticed the steam I immediately looked at my temp gauge and it was 100% normal. When I got back in the car it was still at normal. Being that it wasn't overheating I was able to get it to my mechanic. He was able to get a radiator on the spot and he put it in. I should mention here that the radiator he took out was only about 2 years old, if that. He put it all back together and we ran it for over an hour. I took it for a ride, we idled it, we revved it up in the lot......all of it. The car runs 100% normal. No overheating, no oil to water, no water to oil, no bubbles in the expansion tank, no seemingly high pressure in the hoses....nothing.

My contention is, if there were high pressure in the radiator wouldn't the cap have blown into the expansion tank before splitting the rad? The level stayed normal BTW. It seems to me that there are weaker points that would go before the rad. We replaced the cap BTW when we put the new radiator.

I drove the car home, about 60 miles and it ran fine. I stopped 3 times on the way to check everything out. All seems fine. No overheating, no overflow in expansion tank, no bubbles in exp tank and no seemingly high pressure in the hoses. I do notice that the lower hose stays very cold though, most of the time. My mechanic said that although that's not necessarily normal it may be normal for my particular car. The operating temp could not be better. It's as if the temp gauge needle is glued in place. It never moves from normal.

Well there you have it. I know this post is long, but I wanted to give all the details.
Could this be an underlying problem ie; head gasket, or just bad luck?
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I know I'm new here and only found this place through Google.
I've had a lot of experience with Toyota vehicles and hopefully I can help some of you guys out one day as well.
For now I'm going to bounce around this lovely place and see if I can expand my knowledge of Toyota vehicles.


BTW, the above mentioned vehicle is a 1997 Camry CE with 343,000 original miles.

[Polygon]

Normally I would say that you many other weaker points in the system such as gaskets and hoses. However, that doesn't rule out a structural weakness in the radiator such as a fracture. Sometimes things just fail, it sounds like bad luck to me.

So why are you asking about the head gasket, did it fail?

[UncleBob]

the mechanics suggestion that the overheating on long hills "sounds like headgasket" isn't very accurate. Could be headgasket, but that definitely wouldn't be the first thing I would look for

You are correct about the radiator cap relieving excess pressure. Simply put, you got a 343K mile car. Anything could fail on it at any moment. I wouldn't draw any corrilation because the radiator failed now. Radiators fail all the time at much lower miles. If you want to be double positive, if you haven't already, I'd replace the radiator cap. That will remove any possibility of it being an issue and they are cheap. I always replace them when I do a radiator regardless to how they test, personally.

[NothingSound]

Originally Posted by Polygon

So why are you asking about the head gasket, did it fail?

As far as I know the head gasket did not fail.
That was what my mechanic thought it was at the beginning and still says it's possible there is engine combustion entering the coolant causing high pressure in the radiator and that could be why it cracked.

[NothingSound]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

You are correct about the radiator cap relieving excess pressure. Simply put, you got a 343K mile car. Anything could fail on it at any moment. I wouldn't draw any corrilation because the radiator failed now. Radiators fail all the time at much lower miles. If you want to be double positive, if you haven't already, I'd replace the radiator cap. That will remove any possibility of it being an issue and they are cheap. I always replace them when I do a radiator regardless to how they test, personally.

As I said in my original post the radiator was only about 2 years old, if that.
I replaced the radiator cap when I put the new radiator in yesterday.

Just seems a bit odd that the heater core would fail and then a few days later the radiator blew.
I'm just trying to ease my mind is all. It sucks breaking down and I don't want to keep pumping money into a lost cause.

[UncleBob]

I have never seen a radiator cap fail in a way that pressure went higher. They always leak, and when they leak, the peak pressure goes down.

The only time I have seen pressure go too high, was due to a pinched hose between the radiator and the coolant reservoir. A mechanic had accidently left a crimp tool on the hose, which prevented the venting pressure from escaping. Blew the radiator tank off

Its quite easy to test, if you can blow through the hose, then thats not the problem

Even if you had the worst blown headgasket I had ever seen, the pressure would still vent out the cap. You'd see massive bubbling in the reservoir tank. You'd probably have at least one dead cylinder also.

[NothingSound]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

Its quite easy to test, if you can blow through the hose, then thats not the problem

The mechanic did that with an oir hose.
It was completely clear.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by NothingSound

I don't want to keep pumping money into a lost cause.

Well, any 343 k car WILL require regular infusions of money to keep running, whether its a Toyota or something else.

If you have any doubt, consider it a lost cause already and be prepared to scrap it the next time a major repair is required(ie costing $500 - 1000+)
For now, IMO, a rad and a heater core are not really big $$.

Alternatively, consider that when the monthly infusions cost, on average , more than the payments (or the depreciation rate) on a newer car, then it a lost cause.

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

Even if you had the worst blown headgasket I had ever seen, the pressure would still vent out the cap. You'd see massive bubbling in the reservoir tank. You'd probably have at least one dead cylinder also.

Yeah, I wouldn't suspect a head gasket either. However, your mechanic should have done a compression test if that's what he thought it was IMO.

[bobss396]

With newer cars changing the coolant every so many years is important and not doing so could promote early radiator and or heater core failure. They could very well happen at the same time or closely together.

Some good points came up here and I agree that you should be ok. I'm a bit surprised that your mechanic balked at replacing the thermostat, that's a "while you're at it" type of part change.

Nothin' like driving an old car. Weird things start breaking on them just from the sheer number of miles. Camry engines are pretty good though, just keep up with the oil and coolant changes. I have a pet theory on that and I have has some high mileage cars that I had to get rid of other than engine problems.

Bob

[NothingSound]

Originally Posted by Polygon

Yeah, I wouldn't suspect a head gasket either. However, your mechanic should have done a compression test if that's what he thought it was IMO.

I just talked to my mechanic today and he seemed a little pissed when I told him some if the advice I got from not only this forum but others that I have posted at. He claims that anyone who goes on these forums are not "real" mechanics. They're only car enthusiests. Meanwhile everything I've had him do I've learned from forums and they've worked out to be the problem......so far.

[UncleBob]

I can't blame him for that attitude....there is a lot of bad advice on forums. Even if someone knows what they are talking about, its never as good as being there to look at the car

our shop gets the "well the experts on the net said its this" from time to time. They are often wrong.

[bobss396]

I'm wrong once in a while, but you know what they say about the worth of "free" advice. I agree that it is hard to diagnose a problem without having the car in front of you.

Some of us were or are still professional mechanics, none of us would ever give out bad information, at least not intentionally. I stick with what I know for the most part.

And the WORST thing you can do is tell a mechanic that you're getting information from an online forum. That is as bad as bringing them a botched DIY project to sort out.

Bob