Check Engine Light Horror Story (happy ending included)

[Sigmasound]

About 10 days ago, my check engine light came on. This was on my 2000 Accord V6. I'm not exactly car savvy, but I do try to take the best possible care in regards to my vehicle and I try to learn from problems that pop up in my life and other Honda owner's lives.

When the check engine light came on, it was preceded by a slightly more "lawnmower sounding" engine, in that it was generally noisier and vibrated more than normal. The two incidents were quite obviously related. Even in my paranoia, it wasn't enough to stop me from briefly driving it to the best diagnostic place I could think of: Avery Greene (Honda and used car dealer in Vallejo, CA, northern bay area). The following ensued:

After a call in to Avery Greene, I bring the car in.
The timing belt also needed to be done (year wise I'm past due), which I had been anticipating. I also needed an oil change and new brakes (both axles). I was planning to do all this together anyways, so one more thing didn't seem like such a big deal.
The service dept was actually very helpful and courteous, not to mention quick to decipher the problem.

Immediately I'm quoted:
-190$ for a diagnostic for the "check engine light", which would be voided if the code came up something simple like "gas cap", which I had already checked thanx to many posts on this site and others. I find the diagnosis price incredibly steep but I know they do a good job, so I go w/ the flow.
(a friend of mine works at a praised mercedes dealership in maintenance, they only charge 160$ for a diagnostic).
-860$ for the timing belt. This was a package deal including water pump, some seals. The value still didn't seem apparent.
-$35ish for oil change, np by me.
-200$ per axle for brakes (first brake job on this car, so the price surprised me but didn't seem altogether ridiculous... silly me)
****Later, after the diagnostic, it was determined that the EGR valve was the issue.
-400$ for the egr "kit" or w/e (they'd replace other stuff that didn't need replacing while they were in there and they wouldn't do JUST the EGR.. oi)
-100-200$ for the motor mount, the cause of the vibration (that and egr together set off the light, perhaps the carbon deposits having more opportunity to move around). I ball park this because they quoted me some 10% off labor deal that had the above for....
TOTAL, BEFORE TAX: $1,897.00.

Now, as I said, the lady helping me was awesome. So awesome that she gave me some discount, and even brought the price of the diagnostic down by 100$ and THEN taking even MORE money off (I mentioned to her I'm unemployed at the moment, that may have helped). Despite her employer, this girl was super cool.

Don't get me wrong, I was very grateful, but get this:
What would've effectively been $2,100.00+ with no discounts whatsoever had turned to 1850.00 after taxes. This got me thinking: if she's able to tweak the price so much... she could probably go down WAY more. This thought lead me to take my car elsewhere.

I paid the diagnostic and oil, which she quite nicely took approx 75$ off of.
So far: $160.00 paid and what I thought was about $1700.00 left to pay, should I end up doing things through Avery Greene.

So, I take my car into a family friend's place that I used to go to. I avoided them initially because they admittedly don't have the best diagnostic ability but they do EXCELLENT work otherwise. Not to mention they have incredible prices for the great job they do.

Here's the quotes:
I've had free diagnoses from them before, especially when they can't figure out the issue, but:
$120ish per axle for brakes
$620ish for the timing belt package (the water pump, I believe, was the dealer part, same as AveryGreene's, and all the other parts were also new and high quality)
***that's already 400$ in savings, but check this out:
The EGR was under extended warranty, some have even mentioned it's under "recall" like the transmission was. They didn't even mention that at AveryGreene. I'm still concerned it may be just off enough that it's passed warranty. But with any luck or if it really is a recall, I'll get it done for free. If not, I'm sure AveryGreene was charging me 30-50% more than they need to via steep prices and package deals.

GRAND TOTAL (this includes a fixed motor mount, not mentioned, the two axle's brakes, timing belt package (unchanged from Avery Greene) and

......$999.00!!!!!

I was ecstatic to hear that.


Let's recap complete totals:

Avery Greene, w/out discounts: $2100.00-$2200.00

Avery Greene, w/ nice lady discounts: $1850.00

Realistic Shop (whom I've done much business with in the past):
$1000.00, maybe closer to $1100.00 if I'd done the oil and diagnostic w/ them.

Discount or no, Avery Greene is a place for rich ppl to go and waste money. To me, it's like getting good service for a decent price at a Best Western, or paying like 4 times that for really good service at The Four Seasons. That's the only way I can think it. To me, that doesn't justify anything. Sure, I get a plastic thing on my seat, my car washed and some friendly smiles at AveryGreene but um.... who cares. I know the code to the local gastation carwash, who cares about a plastic thing and I'd rather have ppl who genuinely TRY not to screw me over and give a crap about me as a human being. Caring is much more important than the smile, anyways. Smiles can hide lies.

I actually still contemplate going back to Avery Greene, telling the girl my whole story and, regarless of her response, do my best to convince her to look for another job. If she could find it, working for a company that matches her awesome personality and fantastic customer service skills with some honesty and dignity would suit her sooo much better. I mean, she did a LOT for me and it was still awful, but it's not like she could just charge me all the prices I found elsewhere, that's not up to her, it's up to shady-ass Avery Greene.

Next time you drive by Avery Greene in Vallejo, do me a favor and throw something at it with some gusto (I'm kidding, I'm kidding).

I know I don't need to tell anyone not to go to dealers for repairs, but I thought this story needed to be told.

Thanks for reading....
and for the love of your personal god, avoid dealers as much as you can. And never, ever, EVER, go to Avery Greene in Vallejo, CA for anything other than a diagnostic.... op, wait! Nevermind, 200$ diagnostics are overpriced for any dealer... so, um, just avoid Avery Greene all together. America has enough scams as it is.

[wiseguy01]

first off the egr valve is being recalled you should have received a letter in the mail so by law the dealer has to take care of the recall thats why your CEL came on supposedly the dealer found a flaw in the mounting location so they have to throw on an additional piece i remember someone having a similar problem but as for the timing belt you can expect those to be expensive and 200 dollars an axle sounds rediculous i did my own and the pads cost 60 and rotor just turned it at local star auto parts for 10 so i would do some shopping around and stay away from a sneaky shop like that trying to make money for the mistake that honda made so heres the dilema go with honda lose a day without your car maybe half a day and pay zero or go with avery and pay that amount that costs as much as a used car

[Sigmasound]

Thank you for the info

UPDATE****

Well, I've saved plenty of money, but....

I picked the car up today from the local shop (not Avery Greene, which is Honda parts and what not; but my local, cheaper shop).

I wasn't expecting anything super perfect and smooth for the money I saved and some of the parts that weren't factory (i.e. a Goodyear belt) but:

When I picked up the car it had a horrible power steering noise (at least they addressed it as such). The timing belt is on, but it's goodyear i believe. It seems noisy but idk, maybe thats the same noise as the power steering that only gets worse when I turn the wheel. It's a prominent noise. The thing is is that this noise literally was created at the shop. Not sayin on purpose, but it wasn't there before. I talked to my guy I usually speak with there. He says he was watching when the mechanic fixed it and that he had no idea how the power steering could have anything to do w/, or even be really in the vicinity that they could "elbow" something or what not. The mechanics there are mainly young kids so I'm stumped.

I left the car with them again, saying "I hate to lay blame, man, but that wasn't the way I dropped it off to you." He's already talking about a pump of some sort (hopefully readers of this kno what that may be specifically). I can't concieve this as coincidence. You have my car 4 days, 2 of which you worked on it max. They prolly barely drove it and let it idle for a while.
Now there's new noises. I mean, anyone in my shoes would think just the same: the shop caused it or it's an uncanny coincidence.

Now, to make it worse: the EGR is NOT under warranty, it's under 80K miles but over 8 years. I'm the 2nd owner so the previous owner got this info and let it go w/out a thought. I'm like 2 months off from being in warranty still. The funny thing is: my local shop called up AveryGreene (I wish I'd have known who he called) talking to a 'Kevin' who told him, given the information, that they'd "take care of it and it's still under warranty". Of course I was pissed when I called this guy and said he told my other shop he'd take care of it and it's under warranty. This 'Kevin' claimed he didn't state that. When I mentioned that it probably isn't covered to my mechanic, he told me that all the info was given to 'K' and that 'K' told him it wasn't a problem. I'm sure when I bring it back up it's gonna be blame flung from one shop to another, one communication to another, one person to another. Now they "pass" on my business (I already passed on theirs and really didn't want their help anyways, they're an evil little dealer).

Of course it's AveryGreene's dream come true that the power steering noise arises so that he can tell me "it's because they're non Honda parts". Immediately the guy starts telling me all these other things my warranty is still good on, like the transmission, trying to distract me from the current issue. His seemingly over-simplified explanation to why my power steering is now making all kinds of noise is that the timingbelt/waterpump/seals and whatever else is causing it aren't Honda. Not just nerve, but ignorant too. He specifically mentioned "the belt/belts being too tight". So, here's a question or two:

What can cause power steering noises? Is lack of power steering fluid, or old steering fluid a possible cause? The steering seemed smooth enough just noisy. and....

Can a belt (timing or otherwise) being too tight, because it isn't honda, have any impact on the power steering,?

Also, I'll have to look again because I was inundated with the new sound issue, but:

there was a little cylinder filled w/ fluid, looking under the hood, at the front left hand side of the car. This cylinder w/ what looked like a hexagonal/octagonal cap was massively overflowing. My guy removed the cap to show me how the fluid inside was spinning rapidly, like a whilrpool, so much so that it over flowed a lot (fluid was all over and under the thing). He mentioned "air working itself out of the system" in regards to one of the problems, either the fluid or the steering noise. I was incapable of understanding what that had to do w/ his explanation, but I'm guessing the power steering fluid was this whilrpool/front left container/cylinder w/ hexa/octagonal cap deal. By now I'm just in a state of giving up, as this whole situation has already cleaned out my entire bank account.

Anything anyone can wager a guess on will be helpful for me to compare w/ what they tell me.

This is where I'd be telling off Avery Greene even further, but I think I proved my point. Besides that, "I give up" seems like a nice release at this point, but I'd love to hear yall's opinions.

Thanx for the prompt and in-depth reply, also. I really appreciate that. I just hope this helps someone in the future, let alone myself.

-Danke

[wiseguy01]

ne the belt being to tight can cause noise and has to be readjusted but also if the timing belt when installed is not rolled back three teeth or tightened too tight can cause the same noise as far as the air in the system im pretty sure that someone removed the power steering pump and didnt flush the air out when they put it back on also to flush the air out have a friend turn the wheels left and right while you add fluid and the idiots that think everything that goes back on there car has to be the same name thats retarded i use goodyear and you know what i prefer goodyear over dealer and other off brands its not whether or not its made in japan or not its the warranty that matters and when you fix your brakes DO NOT buy from autozone

[Sigmasound]

Originally Posted by wiseguy01

ne the belt being to tight can cause noise and has to be readjusted but also if the timing belt when installed is not rolled back three teeth or tightened too tight can cause the same noise as far as the air in the system im pretty sure that someone removed the power steering pump and didnt flush the air out when they put it back on also to flush the air out have a friend turn the wheels left and right while you add fluid and the idiots that think everything that goes back on there car has to be the same name thats retarded i use goodyear and you know what i prefer goodyear over dealer and other off brands its not whether or not its made in japan or not its the warranty that matters and when you fix your brakes DO NOT buy from autozone

Awesome. I thank you again. I've relayed all these ideas, namely the timing belt, whether it is actually making noise or not (I thought it was but they thought it was just the power steering noise only) and also the air flush if it didn't take place but I'll know for sure tomorrow. I'm assuming these kids that work for my bud's shop don't know all this basic stuff. Well, at least it sounds basic, but it's not like I'd know, either. I barely know anything about cars. If they were about to go ahead and call in a new pump without even thinking about this... then wow. Although, I'm curious to see what they're going to say about their statement "I mean, none of this stuff comes close to any of this steering fluid/pump stuff." I'm about to be amazed or posting more questions. Either way, anything to go on is a breath of fresh air at the moment.

Here's to mechanics like yourself that aren't only not stupid, but that actually know what they're talking about. Apparently, you're harder to come by than I could've ever imagined.